Bhakta : "In Prema Samput it is said that Kṛṣṇa came from heaven, dressed as a Devi, to see Rādhā. Are there heavenly planets in the spiritual sky?"
Advaitadas: "Yes, it is described in Padma Purāṇa (6th canto) quoted in Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī's Bhakti Sandarbha 285 and Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī's Laghu Bhāgavatāmṛta 295 -
"All these demigods are eternally there in the supreme abode too. In the material world they are temporary rulers of the three worlds."
Also in Govinda Līlāmṛta (19: 38-44) the demigods come down to praise Kṛṣṇa as He returns home from cowherding, to the amusement of the cowherd boys."
Bhakta: "And they are in some kind of dāsya rasa?"
Advaitadas: "Obviously. na yatra māyā kim utāpare harer anuvratā yatra surāsurārcitāḥ (SB 2.9.10) The Bhāgavat says that in Vaikuṇṭha, which is free from māyā, Lord Hari is worshipped by demigods and demons. The demons in the spiritual sky are described in Bhakti Sandarbha and Bṛhad Bhāgavatāmṛta and the demigods in the above quotations."
This is a good opportunity to repost one of the blogs of my lost MSN-spaces site. This one is from May 7, 2005:
Demons in the spiritual sky
Continuing the discussion on demons in the spiritual sky, I found this text in Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī's Bhakti Sandarbha 28:
yatas tasya prākaṭya samaye līlās tat parikarāṣ ca ye prādurbhūvus tādṛṣāṣ cāprakaṭam api nityaṁ tadīye dhāmni sankhyātītā eva vartante. asurās tu na tatra cetanāḥ kintu yantramaya tat pratimā nibhā jneyāṁ (bhag. 10.14.61) "evaṁ vihāraiḥ" ityādau "nilāyanaiḥ setubandhair markaṭa plavanādibhiḥ" itivat tallīlānāṁ nānā prakāśaiḥ kautukenānukriyamāṇatvāt bhagavat sandarbhādau hi tathā sa nyāyaṁ darśitāsti.
"Just as Kṛṣṇa performs His lilas in the prakat līlā with His associates, so He performs innumerable pastimes in the aprakat līlā (in Goloka) with innumerable associates. The demons there have no consciousness though. They are like mechanical statues of demons. These demon statues are being imitated in various childlike pastimes as they are revealed in Śrīmad Bhāgavat 10.14.61: 'Balarām and Kṛṣṇa played hide and seek, made bridges, jumped around like monkeys and performed other child like plays in Vraja." Such has been rationally shown in Bhagavat Sandarbha and other scriptures."
Bhakta: "In Camatkāra Candrikā Kṛṣṇa plays Vidyāvalī, who comes from Benares, a māyāvādī city. Are there also māyāvādīs in the spiritual world?"
Advaitadas: "Hahaha yes but they are pure devotees of Kṛṣṇa still. Of course we must remember that Vidyāvalī was actually Kṛṣṇa and was just a big hoax, he/she of course never came from Kāśī, but if that would nourish Kṛṣṇa's pastimes there could be māyāvādī sages there as well. prāyo batāmba vihaga munayo vane'smin (SB 10.21.14) "The birds in Vṛndāvana are like great munis." Viśvanātha comments on this verse that the muni-like birds of Vṛndāvana have given up all other talks (vigatānya vācaḥ) including that of brahmānanda. Actual māyāvādīs of course merge with Brahman and have no access to eternal Vṛndāvan."
Bhakta: "Then later in Camatkāra Candrikā, Lalitā says: "Can a dead body ever engage in work?" They have dead bodies there?"
Advaitadas: "There is no birth death old age or disease there, no, but for the nourishment of nara-līlā, or Kṛṣṇa's human-like pastimes, conceptions of these things do exist. They are afraid of death like everybody else, but death never comes to them, and they are afraid of Kaṁsa too, but he will eternally be harmless and far away in Mathurā."
Bhakta: "Are there any more of such books with these naimittika (occasional) pastimes of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa?"
Advaitadas: "Yes, apart from the dramas of Rūpa Gosvāmī (Vidagdha Mādhava, Lalita Mādhava, Dānakeli Kaumudī) there is also a nice Bengali booklet called Saṅkalpa Kalpalatikā by Lakṣmī Nārāyan Bhaṭṭācārya. It is about the childhood experiences of the mañjarīs. Such naimittika līlā books can be seen as run-ups to the nitya līlā."
Bhakta: "Ananta Dās Bābājī has said that simply by seeing Smt.Rādhārāṇī one gets prema even without performing any sādhana. Is that depending on (being free from) offences? So upon seeing the deity....."
Advaitadas: "First of all, that statement does not come directly from Bābājī, but from Śrī Sanātan Gosvāmī (Bṛhad Bhāgavatāmṛta 2.5.233, sā rādhikā bhagavatī kvacid īkṣyate cet premā tadānubhavam ṛcchati mūrtimān saḥ). It also does not speak of the deity, but of a direct darśan, premā tadānubhavam ṛcchati mūrtimān saḥ - Prema will be experienced in very own person. The idea is that, since prema is indescribable (śakyeta ced gaditum eṣa tayā tadaiva śrūyeta tattvam iha ced bhavati sva śaktiḥ), the only way to understand it is by directly seeing Bhagavati Rādhikā Herself. This is a highly mystical statement."
Advaitadas: "Yes, it is described in Padma Purāṇa (6th canto) quoted in Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī's Bhakti Sandarbha 285 and Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī's Laghu Bhāgavatāmṛta 295 -
nityāḥ sarve pare dhāmni ye cānye ca divaukasaḥ.
te vai prākṛta-loke’sminn anityās tridasheshvarāḥ
Also in Govinda Līlāmṛta (19: 38-44) the demigods come down to praise Kṛṣṇa as He returns home from cowherding, to the amusement of the cowherd boys."
Bhakta: "And they are in some kind of dāsya rasa?"
Advaitadas: "Obviously. na yatra māyā kim utāpare harer anuvratā yatra surāsurārcitāḥ (SB 2.9.10) The Bhāgavat says that in Vaikuṇṭha, which is free from māyā, Lord Hari is worshipped by demigods and demons. The demons in the spiritual sky are described in Bhakti Sandarbha and Bṛhad Bhāgavatāmṛta and the demigods in the above quotations."
This is a good opportunity to repost one of the blogs of my lost MSN-spaces site. This one is from May 7, 2005:
Demons in the spiritual sky
Continuing the discussion on demons in the spiritual sky, I found this text in Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī's Bhakti Sandarbha 28:
yatas tasya prākaṭya samaye līlās tat parikarāṣ ca ye prādurbhūvus tādṛṣāṣ cāprakaṭam api nityaṁ tadīye dhāmni sankhyātītā eva vartante. asurās tu na tatra cetanāḥ kintu yantramaya tat pratimā nibhā jneyāṁ (bhag. 10.14.61) "evaṁ vihāraiḥ" ityādau "nilāyanaiḥ setubandhair markaṭa plavanādibhiḥ" itivat tallīlānāṁ nānā prakāśaiḥ kautukenānukriyamāṇatvāt bhagavat sandarbhādau hi tathā sa nyāyaṁ darśitāsti.
"Just as Kṛṣṇa performs His lilas in the prakat līlā with His associates, so He performs innumerable pastimes in the aprakat līlā (in Goloka) with innumerable associates. The demons there have no consciousness though. They are like mechanical statues of demons. These demon statues are being imitated in various childlike pastimes as they are revealed in Śrīmad Bhāgavat 10.14.61: 'Balarām and Kṛṣṇa played hide and seek, made bridges, jumped around like monkeys and performed other child like plays in Vraja." Such has been rationally shown in Bhagavat Sandarbha and other scriptures."
Bhakta: "In Camatkāra Candrikā Kṛṣṇa plays Vidyāvalī, who comes from Benares, a māyāvādī city. Are there also māyāvādīs in the spiritual world?"
Advaitadas: "Hahaha yes but they are pure devotees of Kṛṣṇa still. Of course we must remember that Vidyāvalī was actually Kṛṣṇa and was just a big hoax, he/she of course never came from Kāśī, but if that would nourish Kṛṣṇa's pastimes there could be māyāvādī sages there as well. prāyo batāmba vihaga munayo vane'smin (SB 10.21.14) "The birds in Vṛndāvana are like great munis." Viśvanātha comments on this verse that the muni-like birds of Vṛndāvana have given up all other talks (vigatānya vācaḥ) including that of brahmānanda. Actual māyāvādīs of course merge with Brahman and have no access to eternal Vṛndāvan."
Bhakta: "Then later in Camatkāra Candrikā, Lalitā says: "Can a dead body ever engage in work?" They have dead bodies there?"
Advaitadas: "There is no birth death old age or disease there, no, but for the nourishment of nara-līlā, or Kṛṣṇa's human-like pastimes, conceptions of these things do exist. They are afraid of death like everybody else, but death never comes to them, and they are afraid of Kaṁsa too, but he will eternally be harmless and far away in Mathurā."
Bhakta: "Are there any more of such books with these naimittika (occasional) pastimes of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa?"
Advaitadas: "Yes, apart from the dramas of Rūpa Gosvāmī (Vidagdha Mādhava, Lalita Mādhava, Dānakeli Kaumudī) there is also a nice Bengali booklet called Saṅkalpa Kalpalatikā by Lakṣmī Nārāyan Bhaṭṭācārya. It is about the childhood experiences of the mañjarīs. Such naimittika līlā books can be seen as run-ups to the nitya līlā."
Bhakta: "Ananta Dās Bābājī has said that simply by seeing Smt.Rādhārāṇī one gets prema even without performing any sādhana. Is that depending on (being free from) offences? So upon seeing the deity....."
Advaitadas: "First of all, that statement does not come directly from Bābājī, but from Śrī Sanātan Gosvāmī (Bṛhad Bhāgavatāmṛta 2.5.233, sā rādhikā bhagavatī kvacid īkṣyate cet premā tadānubhavam ṛcchati mūrtimān saḥ). It also does not speak of the deity, but of a direct darśan, premā tadānubhavam ṛcchati mūrtimān saḥ - Prema will be experienced in very own person. The idea is that, since prema is indescribable (śakyeta ced gaditum eṣa tayā tadaiva śrūyeta tattvam iha ced bhavati sva śaktiḥ), the only way to understand it is by directly seeing Bhagavati Rādhikā Herself. This is a highly mystical statement."
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