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Monday, May 05, 2008

Phone sanga (16)

Advaitadas: "Rādhe Rādhe!"

Bhakta: "Someone said that this is not a correct way of greeting. If Rādhā is in separation from Kṛṣṇa you should say Hare Kṛṣṇa, because that address contains both Rādhā (Hare) and Kṛṣṇa."

Advaitadas: "That "Hare" refers to Rādhā is a minority view. The majority of Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas identify themselves as Rādhā's maidservants and will see the whole Hare Kṛṣṇa Mantra as referring to Kṛṣṇa. Hare is vocative for both Hari and Harā. That hare stands for hari is the highest view of the mahā mantra, given by Raghunāth Dās Gosvāmī. The mahā mantra is only meant to please Rādhā, not Kṛṣṇa.  This would actually confirm what that devotee claimed, but 'Rādhe Rādhe' is said to the fellow-devotee, not to Smt. Rādhārāṇī Herself. One also often says 'Jay Rādhe!' which is the same. Victory to Rādhā, our mistress! It is confirming we are devotees of Rādhārāṇī, though in some cases it is an effort to get Kṛṣṇa's mercy through Rādhā."

Bhakta: "To glorify a devotee before the deities can be both an offense or just an activity to please Kṛṣṇa, it depends on the intention of the speaker. So I thought to say Kṛṣṇa's name as a greeting with intention to please Rādhā can be also good, and maybe that is more pleasing to her, to hear the name of her beloved than to hear her own name."

Advaitadas: "haha yes so we can continue vice-versa-ing ad infinitum! There is nothing wrong with hare Kṛṣṇa or haribol, it is not forbidden or apasiddhānta, but

1. My Guru always said rādhe rādhe! or jay rādhe, and
2. Whoever I have associated with in my 12 years in Vraja - shopkeepers, dry scholars, jñānīs, yogis and karmīs, South Indians, Bengalis and Vrajavasis - there is a consensus about the use of Rādhe Rādhe. Nobody but Iskcon or perhaps Gauḍīya Math says haribol or hare Kṛṣṇa."

Bhakta: "There is also another mantra -

rādhe kṛṣṇa rādhe kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa rādhe rādhe
rādhe śyām rādhe śyām śyām śyām rādhe rādhe

- it is said that this is higher than Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra."

"1. This mantra was never given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He gave us -

hare kṛṣṇa hare kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa hare hare
hare rāma hare rāma rāma rāma hare hare.

It is there in Caitanya Bhāgavata and in the Haribhakti Vilāsa.

2. Just because the names rādhe kṛṣṇa and rādhe śyām are in that mantra does not make it higher at all. The mañjarī bhāva conception of Raghunāth Dās Gosvāmī, wherein the whole mantra is chanted for Rādhā and every word means Kṛṣṇa, is the highest.

3. rādhe kṛṣṇa rādhe kṛṣṇa or a rādhe kṛṣṇa interpretation of the mahā mantra, in which hare means Harā or Rādhā, indicates sama sneha, equal love for Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, which is inferior to rādhā snehādhikā, preference for Rādhā. Narottama Dās Thākur says in Prema Bhakti Candrikā (51): sama snehā, visama snehā, nā koriho dui lehā - kohi mātra adhika snehā-gaṇa "Equal affection for Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa or more affection for Kṛṣṇa than for Śrī Rādhā - do not become attached to that. I will just speak about preference for Śrī Rādhā!" It is not that we reject Kṛṣṇa, though. rādhā snehādhikā of course ultimately returns to Kṛṣṇa because to please Śrī Rādhā automatically pleases Kṛṣṇa. mañjarī bhāva-worshippers are ultimately also yugalopāsakas - worshippers of the complete Divine Couple."

Bhakta: "Returning to our discussion last time about eating and digesting food in the spiritual world, in his commentary on Brahma Saṁhitā 5.29 (cintāmaṇi prakara sadmasu kalpavṛksa....) Bhaktivinode says that the whole spiritual world is fashioned of Cintamaṇi gems. It serves as the structural material of the residence of the Supreme Lord." That is not like the atoms that make up this world, that can be transformed into food and that again into stool."

Advaitadas: "Non-moving entities in the spiritual world are said to be eternal associates of Śrī Kṛṣṇa in Bṛhad Bhāgavatāmṛta (2.4.139-140) - it includes trees, shoots and insects, I am not sure about edibles like fruits, but it would be mind-boggling to me that we would actually be eating pure devotees and passing them out like stool. The text of Brahma Samhitā's Cintāmaṇi-verse clearly says sadmasu, the buildings are made of Cintāmaṇi, not that every atom is made of it. The purport of Bhaktivinode is open to interpretation. He writes: tan madhye sādhāraṇa cintāmaṇi apekṣā golokera bhagavad āvāsa gaṭhana sāmagrī rūpa cintāmaṇi adhikatara durllabha o upādeya "The abode(s) of the Lord in Goloka are made of ingredients more rare than the ordinary Cintāmaṇi-gems." The word āvāsa or abode in this Bengali sentence can be either plural or singular, but the plural is already used in the original text, so it is clear that only the buildings and not the whole (Goloka-) abode are made of Cintāmaṇi gems." The translator of the Bhaktivinoda purports writes: "The divine potency has fashioned the transcendental world from the transcendental element of Cintāmaṇi." This is not the correct translation."

Bhakta: "In Kuśakratha's translation of Jīva Gosvāmī's commentary on Brahma Saṁhitā 5.30 it speaks about the abode of Cintāmaṇi."

Advaitadas: "That is also not correct. Jīva Gosvāmī writes: tad evaṁ cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadma-mayīṁ..... golokhākhya-vilakṣaṇa-pīṭha-gatāṁ līlām uktvā  "Brahmā speaks of the pastimes in the extraordinary seat called Goloka, which is filled with Cintāmaṇi-buildings." If there is an invasion of monkeys in Rādhākuṇḍa, the Bengalis cry out (the place is) 'bānar-moy', filled with monkeys (moy) not that Radhakund has become a monkey, it just has become filled with monkeys. Generally it is better to wait till the right translation comes out than to jump into errant translations."

Bhakta: "Why would it please Kṛṣṇa if a gopī rejects Him?"

Advaitadas: "There is a greater joy of conquest and of accomplishment for a male lover if a woman resists, rather than if she gives in at once. So the gopīs serve Kṛṣṇa by resisting Him. There are limits, however. If a woman is too hard to get it is also not pleasing Kṛṣṇa. Smt. Rādhārāṇī sings:

kāntā kṛṣṇe kore roṣa, kṛṣṇa pāy santoṣa,
sukha pāy tāḍana bhartsane,
yathā-yogya kore mān, kṛṣṇa tāte sukh pān,
chāḍe mān alpa sādhane

(CC Antya 20.54)

 "If a gopi is angry with Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is pleased with Her chastisement. Her anger has the right proportions, so that it pleases Kṛṣṇa and Her anger is won over with little endeavour."

sei nārī jīye kene, kṛṣṇa marma nāhi jāne,
tabu kṛṣṇe kore gārha roṣa.
nija sukhe māne lābha, poruk tār śire bāj,
kṛṣṇera mātra cāhiye santosh (55)

"Why would that woman, who does not know Kṛṣṇa's heart, survive, if she remains angry with Him just for her own sake? She only thinks of her own pleasure! Let a thunderbolt fall on her head! We just want Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction!"

The demons are there for Kṛṣṇa to fight, to give Him the pleasure of challenge. He doesn't know for sure if He will win, otherwise there is no joy of conquest. So it is also with His conquest of the gopīs. If a mañjarī kicks Him out of the kuñja He is back at square one. He has to start all over again trying to win over Rādhārāṇī. She is vāma madhyā, or moderately left-wing, which means just that - not easy to win over, but not impossible to win over either. That is most pleasing to Kṛṣṇa."

Bhakta: "So that increases the mood of separation too then."

Advaitadas: "Yes yes. There are four types of separation - māna, pūrva rāga, pravāsa and prema-vaicittya. So māna (anger, conflict, breakup, refusal) is one of them."

Bhakta: "In aṣṭakāliya līlā it is described how the mañjarīs laugh and joke about the signs of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa's love-making, yet it is also said that they are humble servants. That is not so humble."

Advaitadas: "No, no - humble servant means in maryādā (social status) they are inferior to the sakhīs. Yet they are able to kick Kṛṣṇa out of the kuñja. The sakhīs are older and are able to have an intimate relationship with Kṛṣṇa, for this reason their external status is superior. But for us, as devotees, the relish is greater as a mañjarī. Humble position does not mean humble attitude. They have a very big mouth to Kṛṣṇa and He relishes that."


  1. PrabhuJi can you clear the doubt of these two Mantras:
    Hare Krsna Mahamantra and Radhe Shyam Mantra?

  2. Please tell me what is your doubt about these two mantras? The Radhe Syam mantra is promulgated by the Nimbarka Sampradaya, and may have been composed by them for all I know, while the Harekrishna Mantra is mentioned in the Upanisads and in the Caitanya Bhagavata as the mantra given to us by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. It is that mantra of which all the Gaudiya Vaishnava acaryas have written explanations and which is to be chanted by us.
    As I said on the blog, it is not less rasika as the Radhe Syam mantra at all, that is just in the eye of the beholder.

  3. I want to know that which Mantra one should follow?..If one is given both the Mantras by two different Gurus,then in that condition,what is best recommendation?

  4. 1. One should follow the Harekrishna Mahamantra
    2. One should not take diksa from two different Gurus, as this is forbidden by Jiva Gosvami and Caitanya Caritamrita. That will save from offence and from confusion, both.

  5. Please forgive me Prabhu.I have not taken Diksha.As I am a beginner,I was in confusion.Thanks for your answer..