"Our process is to show Kṛṣṇa Consciousness as it is, not as others want to see it. By showing Kṛṣṇa Consciousness in this way, you are making the thing less important. It is not that we should change to accommodate the public, but that we should change the public to accommodate us."
Sripad A.C. Bhaktivedānta Swāmi, Bombay 28 December, 1971
This is a bold statement, which I applaud. It is very relevant in this day and age, where so many - especially western - devotees try to 'adjust' or 'modernise' Absolute Immutable Transcendence and make it "understandable/acceptable to 'intelligent' people (sic)."
"Kṛṣṇa is God - you are not." Is another bold statement of Swāmijī. You will have to adjust to Kṛṣṇa, He does not have to adjust to you. Why should He have to play Your game - does He owe you money or so?
Sripad A.C. Bhaktivedānta Swāmi, Bombay 28 December, 1971
This is a bold statement, which I applaud. It is very relevant in this day and age, where so many - especially western - devotees try to 'adjust' or 'modernise' Absolute Immutable Transcendence and make it "understandable/acceptable to 'intelligent' people (sic)."
"Kṛṣṇa is God - you are not." Is another bold statement of Swāmijī. You will have to adjust to Kṛṣṇa, He does not have to adjust to you. Why should He have to play Your game - does He owe you money or so?
Adjust to this
ReplyDelete"The slaves of wine can never rise
From what we call disgrace."
Hail Bhaktivinode!
anonymousji,
ReplyDeletecan give some commentary on your post?
jijaji
Subal das had very little life with hisguru Lalit Prasadam? Yet he often says, "lalita prasadam said I should do this, I can do that". He quote s his guru at convenience, having guru serving him instead of him serving guru. First of all, this is not proper way to represent guru, so this is not good disciple and therefore not good guidance.
ReplyDeleteThen, why change? His considerations of present days and modernity are all relatives and even among peers he is causing disturbance. He is serving his own only cause. Why did Bhaktivinode say the slaves of wine can never rise from what we call disgrace? He was speaking to the western and modern world for future. He spoke those words in English, not Bengalee original. So he was speaking for modern westerners already at the time. He had vision and he saw that there is need for purity, not liquor, no drugs, no meat. Slaves of wine he was chastising. And also he said we. Who are we? We are the pureVaisnavas who can help others who are slaves of their engaging the senses propensities. And now Subal does not see this or is he pretending Bhaktivinode did not speak about controling the senses? I say like this because on one hand Subal speaks of pleasing the Christians by marriage of Radha andKrsna but also there will be wine and marijuana at that wedding! He is picking chosing what Bhaktivinode has taught. As I don't know about lalit prasadam I am not going to say more about him, but Bhaktivinode we know little more and he spoke of disgrace. I think Subal propaganda's is the disgrace! He should stop and give back real Bhaktivinode to modern world.
Subal says 13 wasn't good for his wife so we must make eternal age older. His wife likes meat also so he makes meat eternal diet and so on? The "dancing dog" Prabhupada said, "you think you are God but you are dog". Very bold Swamiji was.
ReplyDeleteSubal das preaching not so modern, for old people, not attractive to young, modern people. His ideas boring. Think aging pacific cruise goers afraid of reality. "I am dancing on the deck so long no one rocks my boat". Who wants to be an old american in Hawaii forever, wewww!! A vegetarian luau, now thats a challenge!! Reverend, may I remind you the Titanic no long cruises. Sorry.
Remember, Subal is also credentialed as a Unitarian (Christian) minister. Unitarians allow their ministers to take liberties with historic Christianity, just like Subal now wants to take liberties with Gaudiya Vaishnavism.
ReplyDeleteThe core of the Christian faith is that Jesus was born on Earth because God, in the form of the Holy Spirit, impregnated a 13-year-old girl, Mary, who was previously betrothed to her husband Joseph.
What is Subal going to do to "reconstruct" the Jesus story? Nearly 2 billion people on Earth have no problem believing in and worshipping a God who had sex with another man's wife when she was 13 years old.
It sure seems as though Subal is keen on changing aspects of the divine lila that most people don't object to, in the hope of making God's activities acceptable to the small circle of aging hippie burnouts who are his natural audience.
However, plenty of religions already exist that appeal to those hippie burnouts. The only problem with those religions is that Subal is not the unchallenged authority of those religions. In one post on his Jyotidham.org board, when a poster asks for logic and scripture supporting Subal's idea, he at one point becomes frustrated and writes:
I also feel we're going around in circles on this issue and it's getting old. Either you accept what I say or you don't. It's up to you.
Subal acknowledges that he is the supreme authority of his new religion. Will Subal be a more attractive supreme authority than Mahaprabhu? I fear his happy hippie enterprise is dooomed to failure.
..."However, plenty of religions already exist that appeal to those hippie burnouts. The only problem with those religions is that Subal is not the unchallenged authority of those religions. In one post on his Jyotidham.org board, when a poster asks for logic and scripture supporting Subal's idea, he at one point becomes frustrated and writes:
ReplyDeleteI also feel we're going around in circles on this issue and it's getting old. Either you accept what I say or you don't. It's up to you.
Subal acknowledges that he is the supreme authority of his new religion. Will Subal be a more attractive supreme authority than Mahaprabhu? I fear his happy hippie enterprise is dooomed to failure"...
Just to clarify I am the admin of Jyoti dham and Subal is a moderator of his UCRK forum...
BTW I am the the one who has been mainly questioning him there, I was the one who he said "Either you accept what I say or you don't." to...
It's easy for you guys to take potshots of him from here, why dont you come and directly ask him questions?
jijaji
'It's easy for you guys to take potshots of him from here, why dont you come and directly ask him questions ?'
ReplyDeleteI too think it a bit silly that this debate is split between here and JD, with neither any of the Vaishnavas putting their case their - nor Subal coming here..
Subal does not want to consult with Vaisnavas. If he did, he would start with his guruvarga. He has been what, 30 years on his own? What of sadhusanga? Subal is rather campaigning for approval from Christians and other such faiths at the cost of his own. In my opinion he is betraying vaisnavism, even the most willing sections of it.
ReplyDelete'Subal does not want to consult with Vaisnavas'
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure if anonymous is referring to my post here;if so,I was thinking more along the lines of adult debate - not consultation.
'Subal is rather campaigning for approval from Christians and other such faiths'
Would you kindly explain what you mean by 'other such faiths.'
Back to topic, of all things, the world does not need Subal's "help". Not now, not ever. Adjusting is one thing, hijacking is another, entirely.
ReplyDelete