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Friday, June 16, 2006

Layers of the tradition

More Subala on Jyotidhama:

"I don't like the Chotta Haridas story. I wonder what layer of the tradition it comes from. I was a friend of Vishnujana Maharaj, and from what I hear, he took this story too strictly. I would edit this story out. Sure it may support renunciates, but why do we want to encourage persons to be renunciates? I've seen the damage done. That's why I say we need revised, edited, reimagined scriptures for today. "

He doesn't like it - understandably, because it may make him feel a bit uncomfortable since he himself took a vow of lifelong abstinence once upon a time, considering what was Chota Haridāsa's fate. And 'layer of the tradition'? - well that is another novel concept. I gather it is Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's layer, what other layer is there? He will 'edit the story out' - wonder what will remain of the Absolute Reality of Nitya Līlā (yes, eternal pastimes) then in the end? And what means 're-imagined'? Are the original scriptures 'imagined' to start with?

Regrettably the link to Jyotidham is lost and so is the original text involving Subal.


  1. I found his realization of "Osho has a better grip than Prabodhananda Sarasvati" rather tickling.

  2. Madhava,
    Why not come and address Subal directly at Jyoti dham, rather than here.

    Like I said ...I'm scratching my head on this one too!


  3. I don't see what else he would answer but that he just makes it up the way he likes it. That much seems to be obvious.

    For him, the lila is something he can make up as he likes. This reminds me of his telling how his svarupa was cooked up; he was given the freedom to make it up the way he wanted, though at that time he asked LPT to tell him. It's a very odd-sounding account to me, the way he makes it sound is like LPT asked Bhakta Ma, "Hey, what svarupa will we give this dude?" "I don't know, you make up something."

    He seems to have become a free spirit, wholly unconstrained by doctrine and tradition. I don't think the two of us have a shared framework for a meaningful dialogue.

  4. "He seems to have become a free spirit, wholly unconstrained by doctrine and tradition."

    That too, but, like Jagat, he's not just a freewheeler, but also he projects his own mundane experiences and mundane thinking on transcendence. That's what made me so mad at Jagat too.

  5. I would like to see more direct questioning to him, to see his answers frankly.

    This is all unfolding in front of my eyes as it happens...

    whats next...

  6. Subal is pagal at best. I fail to understand why you draw attention to his absurd statements. Why don't you present Hari Katha instead of a topic like this?

    In the words of Srila Thakur Mahasaya:

    Ana kathA nA bolibo,
    Ana kathA nA zunibo,
    sakali koribo paramArtha

    praArthanA koribo sadA,
    lAlasA abhISTa kathA,
    ihA vinA sakali anartha (PBC 101)

    "I will not say or hear anything else, but I will live a completely spriritual life (devoted to Sri Krishna). I will always pray for this coveted topic, without which everything else is useless."

    sudhA kaNikA vyAkhyA:

    "I constantly pray that I may always hanker for topics concerning my most beloved Sri-Sri Radha-Madhava, for anything other than those dearmost topics is simply harming my bhajan," For practitioners of raganuga bhajan, who are absorbed in lila rasa, anything other than topics of the beloved deity is a mishap.