Thank you! And next life’s Guru

Saying “Thank you” is not Vedic. There is no real word for it in Sanskrit. The word ‘dhanyavāda’ being used in modern India for ‘thank you’ is introduced to facilitate westerners only, but can’t be found used in śāstra. People who are related in love or friendship do not say ‘thank you’ to each other. It is showing a distant relationship only. Of course, we do express gratitude, as Uddhava Mahāśaya did in Śrīmad Bhāgavata (11.29.6) after Śrī Kṛṣṇa spoke the Uddhava-gīta to him –

naivopayanty apacitiṁ kavayas taveśa

brahmāyuṣāpi kṛtam ṛddha-mudaḥ smarantaḥ

yo ’ntar bahis tanu-bhṛtām aśubhaṁ vidhunvann

ācārya-caittya-vapuṣā sva-gatiṁ vyanakti

“O my Lord! Intelligent persons can not fully express their indebtedness to you, even if they were endowed with the lifetime of Brahmā, because on remembering what you have done for them, their joy increases even more: appearing externally as Guru and internally as Paramātma, you reveal the supreme destination to them.”

Bhakta – „Some say this verse and the song „Caksu dān dilo ye, janme janme prabhu se‘ means that guru-tattva appears in another form in the next life to a śiṣya who did not attain perfection yet.“

Advaitadas – „The words ‚ye‘ and ‚se‘ refer to an individual person, not that anyone else becomes the Guru in the next life. That happens to casual śiṣyas, not to loving śiṣyas. For loving śiṣyas Śrī Gurudeva will re-appear as exactly the same person. How can it be otherwise? Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā (8.6) – yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvan tyajantyante kalevaram. „Whatever bhāva you contemplate, when you leave your body....“ You meditated on a Guru with a certain form, features and characteristics your whole life and as a result you will get another Guru in the next life? Sadā tad-bhāva bhāvita. „Due to always contemplating that sentiment“, tam tam evaiti, „You will surely attain that‘. For a devotee who abandoned bhakti-mārga there will be no bhakti-guru next life, for a casual śiṣya it may be anyone, for a loving śiṣya Gurudeva will reappear in his selfsame form and for a siddha śiṣya Gurudeva appears as guru-rūpa sakhī only. Nikuñja yūnoḥ rati-keli-siddhyaiḥ yā yālibhir yuktir apekṣanīya.

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Ashamed of never having seen anything yet? These are words of hope (āśā-vāṇī) -

asphūrtitaḥ kathāto'pi śrīmad-vṛndāvane vasa

“Even if one has no divine revelations, one should still engage in Kṛṣṇa-kathā, living in Śrī Vṛndāvana." (Vṛndāvana Mahimāmṛta 8.42)

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Lamenting about one's tapasya

Bragging about one's tapasya

Both will dim Hari's satisfaction with them.

bhāvollāsa, dakṣa, gītā bhūṣaṇa and dhoṭis

THE BHĀVOLLĀSA-ISSUE –

Bhakti Rasāmṛta Sindhu 2.5.128 -

api ca –

sañcārī syāt samona vā kṛṣṇa-ratyāḥ suhṛd-ratiḥ

adhikā puṣyamāṇā ced bhāvollāsā itīryate

Translation: Addenda: If the rati of the associates of Kṛṣṇa’s beloved directed to that beloved is equal or less than their rati directed to Kṛṣṇa, the rati directed to that beloved is called sañcāri, nourishing the rati towards Kṛṣṇa.  If the rati of the beloved’s associates directed to that beloved is greater than that directed to Kṛṣṇa, and is constantly increasing, though it is still a sañcāri-bhāva, it is called bhāvollāsa-rati.

bhāvollāsa is only about madhura rati, evaṁ madhurākhye rase tu (Śrī Jīva Gosvāmī and Viśvanātha Cakravartī’s ṭīkās, Bhānu Swami forgot to translate that in the purport to Bhakti Rasāmṛta Sindhu 2.5.128). It is exceptional, so if there is greater love for the suhṛd (sakhī) than for Kṛṣṇa that is at least rādhā snehādhikā sakhi prema or mañjari prema. It can be seen as a sthāyibhāva because it appears in the sthāyibhāva-chapter of Bhakti Rasāmṛta Sindhu. Viśvanātha Cakravartī’s comment on Ujjvala-nīlamaṇi 13.104, na tasyāḥ sañcāritvaṁ nāpi tasyāḥ sthāyitvam iti bhāvaḥ, “It is neither a sancāri-bhāva nor a sthāyibhāva“, means it is exceptional. Ānanda Gopāl Goswāmī ascribing it to manjarī bhāva alone is a matter of subjective loving vision.

WHO IS DAKṢA?

In no way the word dakṣa, or expert, which is one quality ascribed to the priya-bhakta by Śrī Kṛṣṇa in Bhagavad-Gītā (12.16), means ‚a devotee is expert in everything‘, in the sense of expertise in cooking or playing musical instruments. How can any external skill make one dear to Kṛṣṇa? It would mean that any great secular musician or cook would then be dear to Kṛṣṇa too? Let us look at the ācāryas‘ commentaries - Śrīdhar Swāmī comments on this word that it means analasaḥ, he/she is not lazy, Śrī Baladeva Vidyābhūṣaṇa says it means sva-śāstrārtha vimarśa samarthaḥ, expert in discussing and understanding śāstra, while Śrī Viśvanātha Cakravartī does not comment at all on this word.

SĀDHANA OUTSIDE THE DHĀMA -

Doing sādhana outside the dhāma is like swimming against the current – it is not impossible, but it is very hard. Doing sādhana in the dhāma is like sitting on a raft, putting it in the current and happily floating along with it.

GĪTĀ BHŪṢAṆA REVISITED -

In January, 2008 I blogged twice on Gītā-bhūṣaṇa, Śrī Baladeva Vidyābhūṣana’s commentary on Bhagavad-Gītā. I overlooked some nice comments at that time, which I am adding here. 

In verse 11.8 Kṛṣṇa gives Arjuna divya-cakṣu, divine eyes, to see His universal form, though rasikas consider that form inferior to Kṛṣṇa’s human form. Baladeva offers this comment – “You cannot see Me with a thousand heads, a form shining like a thousand suns at once, by your eyes which are accustomed only to My sweetness. Therefore, I give you celestial, heavenly eyes.  As I would put oil on My body in entering a swiftly moving stream, so I anoint your eyes suitably. See My majestic form (yogam aiśvaram) with those eyes. Yoga means “that which makes the mind concentrate (yujyate).” It should be understood, however, that though Kṛṣṇa gave celestial eyes to Arjuna, He did not give him a celestial mind. If He gave that type of mind to Arjuna, Arjuna would take pleasure in that celestial form.”

11.33 – Kṛṣṇa told Arjuna that all warriors he faces have already been killed by Him in advance – “Warriors such as Bhīṣma who cannot be conquered by the devas, have been defeated by Arjuna with ease! Such will be your fame. They have already been killed by Me, at the time of their offending Draupadī.” Later Baladeva comments that this includes Bhīṣma because he did not protest against the assault on Draupadī after the dice-game in Hastināpura.

DHOTI IN ŚĀSTRA -

I have something to add also to my first blog on Vaiṣṇava-dress, of March 16, 2012, where someone supposed the word dhoti is not in any śāstra. The word appears in Govinda Līlāmṛta 14.37 – vibhrac chrī dhaṭikāñcalaṁ ca “During Holi, Kṛṣṇa carried a lump of fragrant powder in the hem of His dhoṭī.” The word used in the verse is dhaṭi, but is pronounced nowadays as dhoti.

Dormant svarūpa and the Vedic Planetarium

DORMANT SVARŪPA

Tarun Govinda gave this nice tip in his blog recently, about the dormant svarūpa of the jīva –

"In Bhakti Rasāmṛta Sindhu, verse 1.3.54, we can read how aparādhas (offenses) can lead to the degradation of one´s own acquired bhāva. So, if aparādhas can effectively CHANGE an inner bhāva, it certainly proves that the bhāva is NOT eternally inherent in the jīva or lying there “dormant” waiting to be awakened.

bhāvo ’py abhāvam āyāti kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāparādhataḥ

ābhāsatāṁ ca śanakair nyūna-jātīyatām api ||54||

"By an offense against the dearest devotee of the Lord, even real bhāva will be destroyed, if the offense is grave. If the offense is medium, the bhāva will turn to bhāvābhāsa. If the offense is slight, the bhāva will become an inferior type.“

Jīva Gosvāmī’s Commentary –

abhāvaṁ dvividhasyaivāparādhasyādhikyena. evam ābhāsatāṁ madhyamatvena nyūna-jātīyatām alpatvena tatra nyūna-jātīyatvaṁ vakṣyamāṇānāṁ śānty-ādi-pañca-vidhānāṁ raty-ādy-aṣṭa-vidhānāṁ ca tāratamyena jñeyam.

„By two types of grave offenses—offense to the dearest devotee, or to Kṛṣṇa Himself —even real bhāva is destroyed. By medium offense, bhāva becomes bhāvābhāsa. By slight offense, the bhāva degrades in category. Becoming an inferior type means that there will be degradation in term of the five rasas and the eight stages from mahā-bhāva to rati. Thus, change in bhāva will take place according to the seriousness of the offense.“

Viśvanātha Cakravartī’s Commentary –

kṛṣṇasya preṣṭhaḥ atiśaya-priyas tasminn aparādhataḥ. yathā raghunāthasya pārṣado’pi dvivida-nāmā vānaras tasya lakṣmaṇa-sthāne’parādhasyādhikyena bhāvo’bhāvaṁ prāptaḥ. aparādhasya madhyamatvenābhāsatvam. alpatve nyūna-jātīyatvam. tac cojjvala-ratimān dāsyaṁ, dāsyavān śānty-ādikaṁ prāpnoti.

„Bhāva will be destroyed by aparādha to the dearest devotees of Kṛṣṇa. An example is Dvivida the monkey, a follower of Rāma. By aparādha to Lakṣmaṇa, his bhāva disappeared. By medium aparādha, bhāva becomes bhāvābhāsa. If the aparādha is slight, the bhāva changes type. Madhura-rati becomes dāsya-rati. Dāsya-rati becomes śānta-rati.“

THE TEMPLE OF THE VEDIC PLANETARIUM

Is ISKCON’s ongoing project of the Temple of the Vedic Planetarium in Mayapura going to benefit anyone else but a few Bengali building contracters? Bengal is one of the poorest states in India – do the local Muslims in Mayapur really care what the Vedic universe looks like? Do the local Hindus not already know this for thousands of years? ISKCON is preaching that the material world is a hell that we should get out of as soon as possible, yet they squander millions of dollars on displaying that same hellish material world through this planetarium, a posh palace in one of the poorest areas in the world. Kapila-deva says –

viṣayān abhisandhāya yaśa aiśvaryam eva vā

arcādāv arcayed yo māṁ pṛthag-bhāvaḥ sa rājasaḥ

„Seeking sense objects, fame and fortune, the rājasik devotee worships Me with a separate agenda through arcā (deity worship, or posh temples) and other means.“ (Śrīmad Bhāgavata 3.29.9)

The cosmos consists of a bunch of rocks floating in outer space and is duḥkhālayam aśaśvatam, the Bhagavad Gītā teaches us, a temporary and miserable place full of janma mṛtyu jarā vyādhi – birth, death, old age and disease. If you get released from prison would you like to carry a photo with you of the cell you spent the last ten years in? Why not spend just a few lakhs on a nice temple in Mayapur with a display of Kṛṣṇa’s and/or Gaur-Nitāi’s pastimes and spend the balance of millions of Dollars on helping poor Vaiṣṇava-widows, sādhus or cows instead? Next to our ashram in Navadvīpa is the Bhajanashram, where poor widows do kirtan all day for a few paisa and a cup of daal. Whenever anyone wanted to give Sādhu Bābā a big donation he asked them ‚have they taken care of the poor women next door yet?‘ All this money could be spent on other important devotional services too like cleaning the Yamunā and saving the holy Vraja-dhāma from further destruction by greedy property developers by buying up land in Vraja for making gardens instead of skyscrapers with luxury apartments. Electricity could be provided to the whole of Vraja 24/7 for all this money. None of this is mundane piety – it is all Vaiṣṇava sevā.

Women sannyāsa, Baladeva on bhoga and sakhīs‘ viśrambha

WOMEN SANNYĀSA -

Bhakta – „What does your lineage think of women-sannyāsa?“

Advaitadās – Though he did not give or take sannyāsa, Sādhu Bābā did encourage not only his male but also his female followers to be single. With husband and children a woman has no chance to do any sādhana for many years. The prostitute who was converted by Haridās Thākur was the first female Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava sannyāsīnī, shaving her head and wearing a single white garment.“

Bhakta – „They say that brahmacāriṇī is not in śāstra.“

Advaitadās – That is not so. Please see Śrīla Raghunātha dāsa Goswāmī’s ‚Muktā Carita‘, verses 429 and 467. 

As for sannyāsa in general, in our family we have only 2 āśrams – brahmacārī and gṛhastha. A brahmacārī has all the benefits of the sannyāsa āśrama – freedom to move and keeping all time and funds for oneself, and even if there is an accident there will be no completely destructive infamy that the sannyāsī suffers if he falls down. There are no privileges or superior prestige offered to brahmacārīs, so there is no risk of taking sannyāsa for all the wrong reasons either.

BALADEVA ON BHOGA -

In reference to my blog of May 4, 2010, Selfless bhakti, which rejects the idea of some fanatics that devotees (should) not enjoy anything, Baladeva Vidyābhūṣaṇa comments on Vedānta Sūtra 4.4.14 –

bhāve vigraha-sattve jāgradvad bhogaḥ. pūrva-pakṣas tu bhoktavyasya rasāder bhagavat-prasādatvena spṛhaṇīyatvād eva na yuktaḥ. tṛptasyāpi harer bhaktecchayā bhogecchādayaḥ. muktasya tu tat-prasāde bhogye bhaktyaiva spṛhādaya iti bodhyam

“The word "bhāve" here means, "When there is a body". When there is a body the pleasure is like that in the waking state. Our opponent claims that the liberated soul does not desire to enjoy the delicious tastes and other pleasures mercifully offered to him by the Supreme Lord. Though the Lord is self-satisfied, he desires to enjoy by the desire of the devotee. The liberated soul, desiring to render devotional service, certainly does desire to enjoy the pleasures that the Lord in His kindness offers. He does this out of love for the Lord. In this way it should be understood.”

This explains the verse in Śrīmad Bhāgavata (3.15.17) describing the residents of Vaikuṇṭha flying in their airplanes with their lovely wives –

vaimānikāḥ sa-lalanāś caritāni śaśvad

gāyanti yatra śamala-kṣapaṇāni bhartuḥ

antar-jale’nuvikasan-madhu-mādhavīnāṁ

gandhena khaṇḍita-dhiyo’py anilaṁ kṣipantaḥ

"Flying their planes with their spouses and entering the water, the devotees constantly sing the glories of the lord which are devoid of all faults, while criticizing the wind, since it distracts their minds with its perfume of Mādhavī-blossoms filled with honey."

Part of the Commentary by Śrī Viśvanātha Cakravartīpāda -

vaimānikā svara-viśeṣodbhāvanārthaṁ vimānād avatīrya sarovarasyāntarjale kaṇṭha-magna-jale ity arthaḥ. yad vā, taṭa-vartinīnām eva jala-saṁlagna-vṛkṣa-śākhām āruhya tāḥ sva-patrādibhir ācchādayantīnām antar-jala eva vikasantīnāṁ madhu-yukta-mādhavīnāṁ gandhena khaṇḍitāḥ bhagavac-caritāsvādanaikatānatve savighnīkṛtā dhīr yeṣāṁ tathā-bhūtā api gāyanty eva, na tu gānād viramantīty arthaḥ - 

"These devotees descend from their airplanes in order to produce special notes in their singing.  They sing while immersed in the lakes up to their throats.  Or, placing their consorts on the trees on the bank of the water, they cover them with leaves, and then have them enter the water. Their attention fixed only on the describing the Lord they may be disturbed by the fragrance of the blossoming Mādhavī-flowers filled with honey, but they continue to sing.  They do not give up singing."  


VIŚRAMBHA – THE TRUE NATURE OF SAKHĪ-BHĀVA

The relationship between Rādhā and her suhṛd / aṣṭasakhīs is one of viśrambha, total trust. There is no jealousy or rivalry at all. Like the Pāṇḍavas - they were not jealous of each other at all, though they shared one wife among the five of them. An example of Rādhā’s affection for a friend is given in Ujjvala-Nīlamaṇi (13.104):

sakhyāṁ sva-sneho, yathā—

śaila-mūrdhni hariṇā viharantī roma-kuḍmala-karmabita-mūrtiḥ

rādhikā salalitaṁ lalitāyāḥ paśya mārṣṭi lulitālakam āsyam

„One day on mount Govardhana, Śrī Rūpa Manjarī observed Śrī Rādhikā displaying extreme affection to Lalitā during the course of her dalliances with Kṛṣṇa. She said to one of Lalitā’s friends in praise of her great fortune: “O friend, just see how Rādhikā is cleaning the perspiration and rearranging the hair from Lalitā’s face even though she is simultaneously sporting with Kṛṣṇa.”

As many Kṛṣṇas as there are devotees, and tattoo-tattva.

As a reaction to my last blog one revered Vaiṣṇava asked me the following questions –

“This is a most intriguing point, where you said there is one paravyoma for every liberated soul. Could you please answer these questions to give more insight to this wonderful totally personalized view of spiritual reality? Could you provide several śāstra-references substantiating this point?”

Advaitadās – 

a. Please see Bṛhad Bhāgavatāmṛta 2.5.52 -

yathā hi bhagavān ekaḥ śrī-kṛṣṇo bahu-mūrtibhiḥ

bahu-sthāneṣu varteta tathā tat-sevakā vayam

yathā—as; hi—certainly; bhagavān—the Supreme Lord; ekaḥ —one; śrī-kṛṣṇaḥ—Śrī Kṛṣṇa; bahu—with many; mūrtibhiḥ— forms; bahu—in many; sthāneṣu—places; varteta—can be present; tathā—so; tat-sevakāḥ—His servants; vayam—we.

“Just as the one Personality of Godhead Śrī Kṛṣṇa exists in many forms and many places, so also do we, His servants.”

b. Ānanda Gopāl Goswāmi often says in his commentaries to Vilāpa Kusumānjali that there are no sakhīs around while the manjarīs render their services. Tulsī Manjarī does all services alone, though they are sometimes ascribed to sakhīs in other granthas like Govinda Līlāmṛta and Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Gaṇoddeśa Dīpikā.

c. Kṛṣṇa is called  ananta-rūpa in Brahma Samhitā 5.35 – He has innumerable forms, not just one.

d. yukti, common sense, also dictates that it is not possible for innumerable liberated souls to serve just one Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa.

Vaiṣṇava - If both Guru and disciple get liberated does this mean they will be in two different spiritual realms, alone with Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa and the sakhīs and mañjarīs?

Advaitadās – “No. Vilāpa Kusumānjali 55 and 72 show Rūpa Manjarī and Tulasī Manjarī serving together. Whenever required, devotees will gather for service, and wherever required they'll serve alone.”

Vaiṣṇava - You once said something like each Guru, and his predecessor gurus/manjarīs, and his disciples are all members of one group serving Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa together in their own kunja with their yūtheśvarī (gopī-group leader) in their own spiritual realm. Is this correct? Where is this told? Please offer us any knowledge and śāstras you can to help us understand this amazing revelation about the spiritual reality. 

Advaitadās – Please see Dhyānacandra's Paddhati, text 87 -

sarva-laksana-sampanna bhāva-hāvādi-bhūṣitā

guru-prasāda-jananī guru-rūpā-priyānugā

gāndharvikā-sva-yūtha-sthā lalitādi-gaṇānvitā

“She has all pleasant characteristics and is adorned with feminine gestures that excite feelings of love. She is born from the mercy of her Guru, and she always follows her guru-rūpā-sakhī. She remains in Śrī Rādhā’s own party (yūtha) in the company of Lalitā’s group (gaṇa).”

Another Bhakta – „Is it not offensive to have tattoos of the Lord or His emblems? After all we pass stool with these images on our bodies.“

Advaita Das – „We pass stool with our Tulsi-neckbeads and tilak on too.“

Bhakta – „Yes, I know, but tattoos can be avoided.“

Advaita Das – „Yes I agree. I think tattoos are really low class, especially for women. It is not a Vaiṣṇava habit. We have brand-marks of śankha and cakra only. We are not sailors.“

Rādhe-rādhe dessert, more tripāda vibhuti, madhura rasa paribhāṣā, innumerable namesakes.

Rādhe rādhe-dessert –

Bhakta – „In the light of all the glorification of rādhā-nāma in the Goswāmīs‘ books, why don‘t Vaiṣṇavas do  rādhe rādhe kīrtan all the time?“

Advaitadas – „In most Vaiṣṇava groups rādhe rādhe kīrtan is usually done at the end of a regular harinām kīrtan. It is like a dessert after a meal. We eat roti-rice-daal and afterwards we get a small dessert like a rasagolla or a cup of sweet-rice. rādhe rādhe kīrtan is like that too – a precious dessert.“

Tripāda vibhūti revisited -

Neither the material world, nor the spiritual world can be measured in terms of space. The word tripāda vibhūti does not mean that the spiritual world is thrice as big as the material world. It means it has three qualities while the material world has only one quality, namely death. The three qualities of the spiritual world are - amṛta, immortality or nectar, kṣema, welfare, and abhaya, fearlessness. This is clearly stated in Śrīmad Bhāgavat 2.6.18 - 

pādeṣu sarva-bhūtāni puṁsaḥ sthiti-pado viduḥ

amṛtaṁ kṣemam abhayaṁ tri-mūrdhno’dhāyi mūrdhasu

In his Bhagavad Sandarbha (67), Śrī Jīva Gosvāmī says that death is the only one quality that makes the material world eka pada vibhuti - tad evam amartyam aiśvaryaṁ tri-pāt, martyam eka-pāt iti tasya catuṣpād-aiśvaryaṁ.

The madhura rasa paribhāṣā -

Bhakta – In Caitanya Caritāmṛta Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu says cāri bhāva diyā nācāimu bhuvana – „I have come here to make the world dance in four bhāvas“ (dāsya, sakhya, vātsalya and madhura). How is it then that most Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas claim that He came only to bestow manjarī bhāva?“

Advaitadās – This verse comes long after the anarpita-verse (Caitanya Caritāmṛta Adi 1.4), which is part of its maṅgalācaraṇa or auspicious invocation and which is also the paribhāṣā (bottom line) of the entire Caitanya Caritāmṛta, as the verse kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam is the paribhāṣā of Śrīmad Bhāgavata (1.3.28), overruling all subsequent contradicting statements. Here is the anarpita-verse in full -

anarpita-carīṁ cirāt karuṇayāvatīrṇaḥ kalau

samarpayitum unnatojjvala-rasāṁ sva-bhakti-śriyam

hariḥ puraṭa-sundara-dyuti-kadamba-sandīpitaḥ

sadā hṛdaya-kandare sphuratu vaḥ śacī-nandanaḥ

"May the Supreme Lord who is known as the son of Śrīmatī Śacī-devī be transcendentally situated in the innermost chambers of your heart. Resplendent with the radiance of molten gold, He has appeared in the Age of Kali by His causeless mercy to bestow what no incarnation has ever offered before: the most sublime and radiant mellow of devotional service, the rasa of amorous love."

Innumerable namesakes -

Bhakta – „How do I visualize my place in the Yogapīṭha (ritual diagram of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa and Their eternal associates)?“

Advaitadās – The Yogapīṭha is not an army, that you identify all day with your batalion and stand on appeal all day for roll-call, just as you don‘t think all day ‚ I’m American‘ or ‚ I’m Bengali‘. Not every devotee has to get a unique name from Guru. What if he has 10,000 disciples? Millions of people are named John Brown, too. Most manjarīs are named Rati or Guṇa Manjarī, there’s innumerable ones. There’s a paravyoma for each liberated soul, where she may be the only manjarī. Similarly sādhaka-names are mostly the same. As I speak there are at least 5 Advaita-dāsas in Rādhākund alone. Mahāprabhu had so many Raghunāthas – so He named them according to caste – Vaidya, Bhaṭṭa and Dāsa. These upādhis (social designations) are used just for practical distinction.

The tatastha-‘region’

Dāmodar Das

The conception that the jīvas are from a taṭastha-region and choose between the spiritual and material world is false?”

Advaitadās

“This is nowhere in śāstra and makes no sense.”

Dāmodar Das

“They quote

jīvera svarūpa hoy kṛṣṇera nitya dāsa;

kṛṣṇera taṭastha śakti bhedābheda prakāśa.”

Advaitadās

“Where is a taṭastha REGION? South of Vladivostok? It says taṭastha ŚAKTI, not REGION. śakti means an ontological value,  not a location, like east of Amsterdam. What does the verse say?

jīvera svarūpa hoy kṛṣṇera nitya dāsa;

kṛṣṇera taṭastha śakti bhedābheda prakāśa –

“The true form of the spirit soul is being an eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. He is Kṛṣṇa’s marginal energy, being both different and non-different from Him.”

Where is it mentioned it is a region or he made a choice?  Where is this mentioned anywhere else? In the six Sandarbhas? Śrīmad Bhāgavata? Bhagavad Gītā? Caitanya Caritāmṛta? Caitanya Caritāmṛta also says the jīva is anādi bahirmukha, disinclined towards Kṛṣṇa from beginningless time. How they explain the word ‘anādi' in the very same book?”

Dāmodar Das

“Do you have Bṛhad Āranyaka Upaniṣad? They say that text 4.3.9 there proves their theory. They translate it as: "The jīva has 2 places: the material region and the cit-region. And there is another place, a border-region called tatastha, which forms the contact of the material and spiritual regions. Being in that region, the jīva sees these both places.”

Advaitadās

That text is about consciousness, not about the jīva -

tasya vā etasya puruṣasya dve eva sthāne bhavataḥ: idaṁ ca para-loka-sthānaṁ ca; sandhyaṁ tṛtīyaṁ svapna-sthānam; tasmin sandhye sthāne tiṣṭhann, ubhe sthāne paśyati, idaṁ ca para-loka-sthānaṁ ca atha yathākramo’yaṁ para-lokasthāne bhavati, tam ākramam ākramya, ubhayān pāpmana ānandāṁś ca paśyati. sa yatra prasvapiti, asya lokasya sarvāvato mātrām apādāya, svayaṁ vihatya, svayaṁ nirmāya, svena bhāsā, svena jyotiṣā prasvapiti; atrāyam puruṣaḥ svayaṁ-jyotir bhavati.

“There are two states for that person, one here in this world, one in the other world, and a third in an intermediate state, the dream-place. When in that intermediate state, he sees both those states together, the one here in this world, and the other in the other world. Now whatever his admission to the other world may be, having gained that admission, he sees both the evils and the blessings. And wherever he dreams, then after having taken away with him the material from the whole world, destroying and building it up again, he dreams by his own light. In that state the person is self-illuminated.”

Otherwise the Upaniṣads would contradict Śruti and Vedānta, which unanimously say that ignorance and karma are beginningless.  These verses are speaking about the position of ātma in different states of existence i.e. waking, dream and birth and death. You can see this from the context. It is a dialogue between Janaka and Yajñavalkya. The king asks about ātma in 4.3.7. Yajñavalkya is explaining how ātma is different from all the modifications of the mind experienced in the waking and dream state: “He, remaining the same, wanders along the two worlds, as if thinking, as if moving. During sleep (in dream) he transcends this world and all the forms of death.” In 4.3.8 he explains about the transmigration of the ātma – “On being born that person, assuming his body, becomes united with all evils; when he departs and dies, he leaves all evils behind.” In 4.3.9 he combines what he said in 4.3.7 and 4.3.8. There is no talk of any spiritual world. Paraloka refers to next body or birth. In 4.3.18, another text they quote to prove the tatastha region-point, even the word svapna-sthāna, ‘dream-place’, is stated explicitly, “As a fish swims between two banks, the ātma experiences the waking and dream states.”

tad yathā mahā matsya ubhe kule' nusancārati pūrvaṁ ca paraṁ caivam

evāyam puruṣa etav ubhāv antav anusancārati svapnāntam ca buddhāntam ca

(Fall-vādī translation:) “Just as a large fish living in the river wanders from one bank to the other, so the jīva is of similar quality, and is equipped to wander in the Kāraṇa waters between the material and spiritual worlds (svapnānta and buddhānta).” Bṛhad-Āraṇyaka Upaniṣad 4.4.3.18

Here again are the words svapnāntam, dreaming state and buddhāntam, wakeful state of consciousness. Where is there any mentioning of the Kārana ocean? It does not fit in the context at all. That whole section of the Upaniṣad, texts 8-18, is all about consciousness.“

Girirāni

GIRIRĀNI

The bizarre idea that Mount Govardhan is female is based on the following assumptions -

"And those who go very deep will think that Giriraja Govardhana is like a sakhi of Śrīmati Radhika, having a female form in which to serve."

 "In the caves and kunjas of Govardhana, Giriraja is seeing all of the sweetest pastimes of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. Who can see them? Can any male person be there and serve at that time? It is quite impossible."

 "So many secret and sweet pastimes of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa and the gopas and gopis take place in the caves and groves of Giriraja Govardhana. It can be understood, therefore, that Govardhana is not male."

Advaitadas – The idea that Mount Govardhana is a sakhī of Rādhārāṇī based on the logic presented above is a pseudo-rasika consideration. If we apply this logic, that no male person can be present when the Divine Couple enjoy Their pastimes, then we are bound to conclude that all the trees, vines and birds present on the occasion must also be female only. This, of course, is an absurd proposal, because there are plenty of records of male animals being present in the nikuñja-līlā of Śrī Yugala Kiśora, perhaps the most famous examples being the two Śuka-parrots Dakṣa and Vicakṣaṇa, who participate in the concert of waking up the lovers in their pleasure grove during niśānta-līlā (Kṛṣṇa Bhāvanāmṛta, 1.28-32). And then there are the priya-narma sakhās, headed by Subala, who also have entrance into the nikuñja-līlā. Śrī Rūpa Mañjarī addressed a girlfriend who was very devoted to Subala (Ujjvala Nīlamani 2.14), saying:

 pratyāvartayati prasādya lalanāṁ krīḍā kali-prasthitāṁ

 śayyāṁ kuñja-gṛhe karotyaghabhidaḥ kandarpa-līlocitām

 svinnam vījayati priyā hṛdi parisrastāṅgam uccair amuṁ

 kva śrīmān adhikāritāṁ naḥ subalaḥ sevā vidhau vindati

 "Sakhi! When a quarrel arises between Śrī Kṛṣṇa and His beloveds in the course of their pastimes, Subala goes to Kṛṣṇa's sweethearts and pacifies them with different humble words, thus convincing them to return to Him. He makes a wonderful playbed fit for erotic pastimes for Śrī Kṛṣṇa in the kunja-cottages, and when Kṛṣṇa becomes tired of lovemaking and falls exhausted on His beloved's (Rādhā's) breasts, Subala picks up a fan and fans Them. For which services is Subala not eligible?"

Of course sometimes Śrīmati Rādhā, upon being plunged in the rapture of viraha-bhāva, may speak delirious talks, addressing any tree, creeper or animal as sakhī, but this can never be presented as a permanent ontological situation. Govardhana is Govardhana. When we see Govardhana in Vraja, we consider Govardhan to be the best of Hari's servants. When we worship the śilā of Govardhan, following in the footsteps of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Raghunātha Dās Goswāmī, we worship it as non-different from Śrī Kṛṣṇa, along with a mālā of guñjā-berries as a sign of our allegiance to Rādhārāṇī.

  

  Girirāni proponent –

  pramada-madana-lilah kandare kandare te

    racayati nava-yunor dvandvam asminn amandam

    iti kila kalanartham lagnakas tad-dvayor me

    nija-nikata-nivasam dehi govardhana! Tvam

  

    "O Govardhana! Please grant me a dwelling near your side so that I can  easily witness and serve the youthful lovers Śrī Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa as They perform newer and newer secret, amorous lilas within your many caves, and where They become completely maddened from drinking prema. You are present there, and you make everything possible." (Śrī Govardhana-Vasa-Prarthana-Dasakam, verse 2)

    So many secret and sweet pastimes of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa and the gopas and gopis  take place in the caves and groves of Giriraja Govardhana. It can be understood,  therefore, that Govardhana is not male. Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa would not be able to play so many grove-lilas and kunja-lilas in front of a male. That would be absurd. Giriraja has actually come from the heart of Śrīmati Radhika. It is not that Kṛṣṇa became Giriraja Govardhana. Kṛṣṇa is the predominating Deity of Giriraja, but it has been written in the Tapani Upanisad and Bhavisya Purana that Giriraja Govardhana has manifested from the heart of Radhika.

Advaitadas – “I would like to see those verses. They must be heavily interpreted. Why should we concoct a novel method of worship, separate from the one very clearly instructed by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu to Raghunātha Dās Gosvāmī, our prayojana-ācārya? Is it so that the method of bhajan given to him is not high enough for us? Caitanya Caritamrita, Antya-lila, 6.295-298:

prabhu kahe, ei śilā kṛṣṇera vigraha

ihāra sevā koro tumi koriyā āgraha

ei śilāra koro tumi sāttvika pūjana

acirāt pābe tumi kṛṣṇa-prema-dhana

eka kujā jala āra tulasī-mañjarī

sāttvika-sevā ei śuddha-bhāve kori

dui-dike dui-patra madhye komala mañjarī

ei-mata aṣṭa-mañjarī dibe śraddhā kori

The Lord said: “This śilā is the vigraha (divine form) of Kṛṣṇa. Worship Him with great eagerness! Worship this śilā in a sāttvika way, and very soon you will attain the wealth of Kṛṣṇa-prema. Offer one jug of water and a tulasī-mañjarī. In this way, render sāttvika-sevā with a pure mood. With faith, you should offer eight tulasī-mañjarīs, each having two leaves and a tender bud in the middle.”

This leaves very little scope for speculation as to what was the concept of bhajan of Raghunātha Dās Goswāmī.

Girirāni proponent –

From the evidence of Śrī Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and from the evidence of Ragunatha dasa Gosvami's own writings, we see that there is some provision to worship Giriraja Govardhana as Kṛṣṇa Himself. There is no doubt about this. In Śrīmad Bhagavatam also, when all the Vrajavasis performed the annakuta mahotsava, Govardhana assumed a very large form, like Kṛṣṇa, and accepted everything as the Supreme Lord. This is very good, but we see many great Vaisnavas in our line worshiping Govardhana as Hari-dasa-varya, the servant of Hari, not as Hari Himself. There is also evidence for this. How can we reconcile these two approaches? It is very easy. Śrīla Gurudeva has given a simple example. We know Baladeva. Who is Baladeva? He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is Visnu-tattva, the almighty Supreme Lord,  non-different from Kṛṣṇa. Yet, at the same time, Baladeva is dasa. He is  the servant of Kṛṣṇa. At the same time, all those who go very deeply will know that Baladeva has become Ananga Manjari in order to serve the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa in madhurya rasa. In the same way, anyone may see Giriraja Govardhana as the supreme Lord Hari Himself. Anyone who goes deeper may see him as Hari-dasa-varya, the best servant of Hari. And, those who go very deep will think that Giriraja Govardhana is like a sakhi of Śrīmati Radhika, having female form in which to serve.

  

Advaitadas – It is generally accepted that Baladeva is also Ananga Manjari because His consort Jahnavā has that identity, and śakti śaktimator abheda, there is no difference between the energy and energetic. But Govardhana is not said to have such a female counterpart anywhere, by any ācārya or śāstra. This is pure conjecture or kutarka, false logic.

     Girirāni proponent –

 pramoda-madana-lilah kandare kandare te

 racayati nava-yunor dvandvan asminn-amandam

  

"In the caves and kunjas of Govardhana, Giriraja is seeing all of the sweetest pastimes of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. Who can see them? Can any male person be there and serve at that time? It is quite impossible. In our Guru-gayatri we see the word Kṛṣṇanandaya. Guru is giving pleasure to Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇā (Kṛṣṇa with a long 'a'), Śrīmati Rādhārani. Therefore, if  gurudeva is Kṛṣṇanandaya, giving pleasure to both Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, how can he have a male form in that realm? Surely this mantra is for remembering and praying for the mercy of guru in his sakhi form, as a maidservant of Śrīmati Rādhārani. In the same way, the various conceptions of Giriraja Govardhana can be reconciled.

 

Advaitadas – Same thing here. Śrī Gurudeva is confirmed by śāstra to have a male sādhaka and female siddha-form, but not Govardhana.

     Girirāni proponent –

rasa-nidhi-nava-yunoh saksinim dana-keler

dyuti-parimala-viddham syama-vedim prakasya

rasika-vara-kulanam modam asphalayan me

nija-nikata-nivasam dehi govardhana tvam

O Govardhana, O hill that provides the dark courtyard that witnesses the dana-keli pastime of the nectar-treasure youthful divine couple, O hill that brings great bliss to the best of they who relish transcendental nectar, please grant to me residence near you.

In this sloka it is seen that Girraja becomes Girirani as no males can witness the nikunja lilas, so this saksinim is female ,not saksi.

Advaita Das - No ācārya, past or present, ever claimed Govardhan is female, not even Gauḍīya Maṭh-ācāryas. The word sākṣiṇī applies to the place called Śyāma vedī (which is fem. gender), not to Govardhan (which is male gender). Rasa nidhi nava yūnoḥ = of the youthful couple, who are an ocean of rasa. Sākṣiṇīṁ = she is the witness, dāna keleḥ = of the dāna-pastime, dyuti parimala viddhāṁ = filled (female gender) with splendor and fragrance, śyāma vediṁ = blue pavillion (female gender), prakāśya = manifest (by Govardhana). Their own translation says: “O Govardhana, O hill that provides the dark courtyard that witnesses the Dāna-keli pastime of the nectar-treasure youthful divine couple.." That witnessing, sākṣiṇī, dark courtyard is the female Śyāma vedi. No one says Girirāṇī, but Girirāj, and Śrīmad Bhāgavata says haridāsa varya, not haridāsī varya. Kṛṣṇa Himself proclaimed ‘ śailo’smi’ – “I am the mountain!” as He lifted Mount Govardhana in Śrīmad Bhāgavata 10.24.35.

Rati Manjari, Giridhāri, bhāgavat-paramparā and rāgānugā at ruci.

Bhakta – “You say Advaita Prabhu is Rati Manjari but I thought Raghunātha dās Gosvāmī was Rati Manjari.”

Advaitadās – In Gaura Ganodddeśa Dīpikā different other identities are given to Rati Manjari too, is any of them wrong? Raghunātha dās Gosvāmī is said there to be Rasa Manjari. Can you limit identities in the spiritual world?

yā rūpa-mañjarī-preṣṭhā purāsīd rati-mañjarī

socyate nāma-bhedena lavaṅga-mañjarī budhaih 

(Gaura Ganodddeśa Dīpikā.181)

“Rūpa Manjari's closest friend is known by the varying names Rati Manjari and Lavanga Manjari by the wise and appeared as Śrīla Sanātana Gosvāmī.”

dāsa-śrī-raghunāthasya pūrvākhyā rasa-mañjarī

amuṁ kecit prabhāṣante śrīmatīṁ rati-mañjarīm

bhānumaty-ākhyayā kecid āhus taṁ nāma-bhedataḥ 

(Gaura Ganodddeśa Dīpikā.186)

“Śrīla Raghunātha dās Gosvāmī was the incarnation of Rasa-manjari. Some say that Raghunātha dās Gosvāmī was the incarnation of Rati-manjari, and others say he was the incarnation of Bhānumati-devi.”

Bhakta. Some say one should not take Giridhāri (the Govardhan śilā) out of Braja –

Advaitadās - Where did Giridhāri-worship start? In Puri, not in Braj. Śrīman Mahāprabhu himself took Giridhāri out of Braj. The problem is not with taking Giridhāri out of Braj but a possible lack of sadācāra and responsibility. The Deity is like a baby, and should be cared for non-stop.

Bhakta - Some want to prove bhāgavat-paramparā, a selection of the greatest ācāryas-only, by quoting Mahāprabhu instructing Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmi - ei śuddha bhakti iha hoite prema haya, pancarātre, bhāgavate ei lakṣaṇa kaya (CC Madhya 19.169)

Advaitadās – The proponent here does not give any translation. This is the translation:

‘This is pure bhakti, from which prema arises. Its symptoms have been described in the Nārada Pancarātra and in the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam.’ 

You see this has nothing to do with a hand-picked paramparā at all.

Bhakta – In this connection it is sometimes said that if one who is not realized gives dīkṣā, then the flow of realization will not reach the next generation. 

Advaitadās – Gaurakiśora dāsa babaji, Jagannāth dās babajī and Vaṁśīdās babaji all had brāhmin-gṛhastha gurus and became siddha still.

Bhakta - Some say rāgānugā bhakti starts at the stage of ruci, quoting for instance Bhakti Sandarbha (Anuccheda 310) - ato rāgānuga kathyate. yasya pūrvoktaṁ rāga-viśeṣe rucir eva jātāsti na tu rāga-viśeṣa eva svayaṁ, tasya tādṛśa-rāga-sudhākara-karābhāsa-samullasita-hṛdaya-sphaṭika-maṇeḥ śāstrādi-śrutāsu tādṛśyā rāgātmikāyā bhakteḥ paripāṭīṣv api rucir jāyate. tatas tadīyaṁ rāgaṁ rucy-anugacchantī sā rāgānugā tasyaiva pravartate. 
"Now we will discuss rāgānugā bhakti. When a person develops ruci for the aforementioned specific rāga, even though that rāga has not yet arisen in him, the heart becomes like a crystal, shining as it reflects the rays of the moon of that rāga. By hearing from śāstra etc. one develops ruci for the actions of the rāgātmikā-associates, Then, by following the rāga of a particular associate in accordance to one's ruci, one performs bhakti which is called rāgānugā."

Advaitadās - The phrase 'even though that rāga has not yet arisen in him' shows it has nothing to do with having to attain the generic term of ruci first. ‚According to one’s ruci‘ means according to one’s own taste, not that rāgānugā bhakti itself starts from the official generic stage of ruci, the 6th of 9 stages of devotional development as mentioned in Bhaktirasāmṛta-sindhu 1.4.15-16. Viśvanātha Cakravartī writes in Rāga vartma candrikā, 2.7 –  atha rāgānugā-bhaktimajjanasyānartha nivṛtti niṣṭhā-rucy-āsakty-antaraṁ prema-bhūmikārūḍhasya “Now it will be described how the rāgānugīya bhakta gradually advances through the stages of anartha nivṛtti (cessation of bad habits), niṣṭhā (fixation), ruci (taste), and āsakti (attachment to the beloved deity) up to the stage of prema.”

The course of development of both vaidhi- and rāgānugā sādhana is the same, and separate symptoms of the three stages of sādhana-, bhāva- and prema-bhakti of both vaidhi- and rāga-bhakti have been given in Bhaktirasāmṛta-sindhu (First wave, chapters 2, 3 and 4). One may claim that the stage of ruci is still within the boundary of sādhana bhakti, but the above statement of Viśvanātha Cakravartī about the course of rāga bhakti excludes that.

Bhakta: Then Bhakti Sandarbha Anuccheda 312 is quoted -
tasminn eva nānā-vikṣepavati rucy-abhāvena rāgātmika-bhakti-śailīm anabhijānāti 
"In the absence of ruci persons experience different types of mental distraction, and thus, they are unable to understand the behavior of the rāgātmikā bhaktas (eternal associates)."

Advaitadās - This does not say the generic stage of ruci is required to attain rāga bhakti. It speaks about anarthas that may occur while practising rāgānugā bhakti sādhanā itself, without having too much ruci at the time. Also, the text says bhakti, not bhakta, so it means „They do not understand the ways (śaili) of rāgātmikā bhakti‘.

Bhakta - Also in Anuccheda 312 - tato rucer viralatvād uttarābhāvenāpi yad aikāntikītvaṁ tat-tasyaikāntika-mānino dambha-mātram ity arthaḥ 

"Because this ruci is extremely rare, if one considers himself fixed in exclusive devotion, yet is without reverence for scriptural injunction, his so-called exclusivity in devotion is merely a pretense."

Thus it is shown conclusively that rāgānugā-bhakti is impelled by ruci, and without ruci one cannot follow the associates of Śrī Kṛṣṇa because one is incapable of even understanding the nature of their services. 

Advaitadās - This speaks about the rareness of taste for bhakti on the whole, it does not state that rāgānugā bhakti itself is not attained without being on the generic, official level of bhakti named ruci.

Bhakta – They then quote Bhaktirasāmṛta-sindhu: 1.2.5-6 -
vaidhī rāgānugā ceti sā dvidhā sādhanābhidhā. tatra vaidhī—
yatra rāgānavāptatvāt pravṛttir upajāyate. śāsanenaiva śāstrasya sā vaidhī bhaktir ucyate.

śrī-jīvaḥ: yatra bhaktau pravṛttiḥ puṁso rāgānavāptatvāt rāgeṇanavāpteti hetoḥ śāstrasya śāsanenaiva upajāyate . sā bhaktir vaidhī ucyate . rago’trānurāgas tad-ruciś ca 

visvanāthah: vaidhīti - rāgo’tra rāgas tad-ruciś ca.
"Bhakti performed without raga is vaidhi. In this context, rāga means ruci."

Advaitadās - The commentaries of both ācāryas to Bhaktirasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.5-6 say tad ruci, taste for rāgānugā bhakti, not the official, generic bhakti-stage of ruci. ruci broadly means just ‚taste‘.

Bhakta - Śrī Jīva Goswāmī’s ṭīkā to Bhaktirasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.300 is then quoted: yad vinā mūla-tat-tad-rūpa-līlādy-asphūrteḥ. "Without hearing there is no sphūrti (momentary vision) of the sweetness of the forms and pastimes." Here Srila Jiva Gosvami explains that lobha depends on "kincid anubhūti". In your sangha it is translated as "a slight feeling", but Jiva Gosvami explains in this purport that "kincid anubhūti" means a sphūrti, an actual realization, coming from sravanam. If raganuga-bhakti depended on a slight feeling than everyone would be qualified, but as we have shown earlier, the qualification is extremely rare.

Advaitadās - Bhaktirasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.300 has nothing to do with the ruci-stage at all. No one in ‚our sangha‘ has said kincid anubhūti in this context means a slight feeling – these words are not there in Jīva Goswāmī’s ṭīkā to verse 300 at all. Instead they appear in his ṭīkā to Bhaktirasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.292, and it does not mean that everyone would be qualified – there needs to be lobha in the first place which does not depend on personal purity as this is not mentioned in any śāstra at all. Without even the slightest lobha no one will be qualified for rāgānugā bhakti, which is simply attained by the grace Kṛṣṇa and His devotee – kṛṣṇa tad bhakta kāruṇyā mātra lābhaika hetukā  - Bhaktirasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.309. Bhānu Swāmi translates kincid anubhūti as 'realizes to some degree'. Full text of his translation – „When a person realizes to some degree the sweetness of the love and activities of the inhabitants of Vraja through hearing from the scriptures such as Bhāgavatam, which describe these siddha devotees, his intelligence may develop disregard for the injunctions of scripture (śāstram) and logic (yuktim), though logic is certainly employed”

Bhakta - Furthermore, Bhaktirasāmṛta-sindhu 1.1.45 -

svalpāpi rucir eva syād bhakti-tattvāvabodhikā . yuktis tu kevalā naiva yad asyā apratiṣṭhatā.

srī-jivah: atra bahirmukhān praty anyad apy ucyate ity āha—kiṁ ceti. rucir atra bhakti-tattva-pratipādaka-śabdeṣu śrīmad-bhāgavatādiṣu prācīna-samskārenottamatva-jnānam.

Here Srila Rūpa Gosvāmi says that this bhakti-tattva is unintelligible for those who do not have at least a little ruci. Srī Jīva comments that ruci means the person has samskaras (impressions) of bhakti-śāstra such as Srimad Bhagavatam from the previous lives.

Advaitadās - If ruci in Bhaktirasāmṛta-sindhu 1.1.45  would be the generic stage of ruci mentioned in Bhaktirasāmṛta-sindhu 1.4.15-16, the official sequence, then even vaidhi bhakti would be unattainable. Bhānu Swāmi translates the verse properly as 'Even if one has a little taste (not official ruci-stage but just 'taste')  he can understand it.' Something totally different from 'one needs to have the ruci-stage of bhakti to commence rāgānugā bhakti'.

Imagination is technically rajasic and will never result in realization. 

Advaitadās - Meditation on the siddha deha is not imagination. rāgānugā mārge anutpanna rati sādhaka bhaktair api svepsita siddha dehaṁ manasi parikalpya - 'On the rāgānugā-path even sādhaka bhaktas who have no rati yet can think of his own desired siddha deha." (Kṛṣṇadās Kavirāja’s Sāraṅga Rangadā ṭīkā of Kṛṣṇa Karṇāmṛta - 3)

Bhakta – „Only chanting three lakhs harinama daily will sufficiently purify the heart for the spontaneous appearance of Sri Krsna's form, qualities and pastimes.“

Advaitadās - Where is the evidence for this? What if aparādha is committed?

Heno kṛṣṇa nāma yadi loy bahu-bāra; tabu jodi prem nohe nohe aśrudhār
Tabe jāni aparādha tāhāte pracura kṛṣṇa nāma bīja tāte na hoy ankur [CC Ādi 8.29-30]

‚Even if one chants the holy name of Kṛṣṇa many times but there is no prema and tears do not flow, then I know a lot of aparādha is committed, because of which the seed of the holy name does not sprout.‘ 

Goloka, Svayam Bhagavan and Brahma Samhita

Bhakta – “Tattvavādis do not accept Goloka.”

Advaitadas –

“In the Bhagavad-Gītā, Kṛṣṇa speaks several times about "His Dhām", for example in 15.6: tad dhāma paramaṁ mama. What is meant by "dhāma paramaṁ mama"? It is logical that this is the abode of Kṛṣṇa, as the Gītā is a dialogue between Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna (Not Viṣṇu, Rāma, etc). And 'Goloka' is just one of the words to indicate this very abode of Kṛṣṇa (“cow-world”). There are other words, such as, for example, 'Kṛṣṇaloka'. Is Goloka Vaikuṇṭha? Certainly. Rūpa Goswāmī teaches in Bhakti Rasāmṛta Sindhu: siddhāntatas tv abhede 'pi śrīśa-kṛṣṇa-svarūpayoḥ “Philosophically there is no difference between Kṛṣṇa and Viṣṇu.” What is the problem in calling this special Vaikuṇṭha of Kṛṣṇa - 'Goloka'?  There is a spiritual Goloka where Kṛṣṇa's pastimes are eternal, and to think otherwise is māyāvāda – if they accept Kṛṣṇa then He must have an abode too. Śāstra says that each form of the Lord has His abode. There are 34 chapters in the 10th canto of the Bhāgavata describing Kṛṣṇa’s Vṛndāvan-pastimes, which eternally take place in the spiritual world, the highest abode of Kṛṣṇa, and it is not important how this abode is called - Goloka, Kṛṣṇa-loka or Vaikuṇṭha. Jīva Goswāmī quoted evidence for Goloka in Kṛṣṇa-sandarbha – first from Nārada Pancarātra –

tat sarvopari goloke śrī govindaḥ sadā svayam

viharet paramānandī gopī-gokula-nāyakaḥ

« Highest of all, in Goloka, Śrī Govinda always personally enjoys, in great bliss, as the Lord of the gopīs and Gokula. »

And from Mahābhārata, śānti parva 330.68-

evaṁ bahu-vidhai rūpaiś carāmīha vasundharām 

brahma-lokaṁ ca kaunteya golokaṁ ca sanātanam

The translation in KM Ganguly’s Mahābhārata – « In this way, O son of Kunti, assuming diverse forms do I rove at will through the Earth, the region of Brahma himself, and that other high and eternal region of felicity called Goloka.”

In the Bhāgavata (10.27.1) Goloka is mentioned as Indra’s world, but the above Mahābhārata quote cannot apply to that because the word sanātanam is there – eternal, while Indra’s world is not eternal. Furthermore, Goloka is mentioned many, many times in Brahma Vaivarta Purāṇa. The Madhvaites claim this is interpolated, but what is interpolated and what is not is very hard to ascertain. Brahma Vaivarta Purāṇa is mentioned in Bhāgavata 12.13.4-9 as having 18,000 verses.

Bhakta -
“Also the tattvavādīs challenge us, why we are calling Kṛṣṇa the highest? They say that "bhagavān svayam" is mentioned many times in the Bhāgavatam, about Dhanvantari and about Vāmanadeva -

tasyānucaritam upariṣṭād vistariṣyate yasya bhagavān svayam akhila-jagad-gurur nārāyaṇo dvāri gadā-pāṇir avatiṣṭhate nija-janānukampita-hṛdayo yenāṅguṣṭhena padā daśa-kandharo yojanāyutāyutaṁ dig-vijaya uccāṭitaḥ.

“The story of Bali will be told later. The Lord himself, guru of the whole universe, Nārāyaṇa, merciful to his devotee, stands at Bali’s door with a club. The Lord kicked Rāvaṇa ten thousand yojanas with his toe big toe, when Rāvaṇa came to conquer Bali.” (5.24.27)

Advaita Das:

“The word swayam here applies to akhila jagat guru, as well as that He Himself (swayam) stands guard. It does not say that Visnu is the original Personality of Godhead at all. By the way, this is one of many verses that show that Nārāyaṇa is jagat guru, not Balarām / Nitāi.” 

Bhakta – “Then they quote ‘dhanvantariś ca bhagavān swayam eva kīrtir’ (2.7.21)”

Advaitadas –

“Here swayam does not apply to bhagavan but to kīrtir - dhanvantariś ca bhagavān svayam eva kīrtir. This verse describes Dhanvantari. The Lord by the name Dhanvantari is the embodiment of fame (svayam kīrtiḥ). These verses were quoted out of context. They misplaced the adjectives in these two verses.”

Bhakta – “They are saying that Viṣṇu is not mentioned in the list of avatāras mentioned in the first canto of the Bhāgavata because He is the origin of the avatāras, and not an avatāra.”

Advaitadas –
“I quoted 'siddhāntatas tvabhede'pi' earlier. We admit that there's no difference between Kṛṣṇa and Viṣṇu, but rasenotkṛśyate kṛṣṇam, Kṛṣṇa's rasa is superior. Of the 336 chapters of the Bhāgavata, about 1/3 of them are about Kṛṣṇa alone.”

Bhakta -
“There is another verse -

śrī-rājovāca

samaḥ priyaḥ suhṛd brahman bhūtānāṁ bhagavān svayam

indrasyārthe kathaṁ daityān avadhīd viṣamo yathā (7.1.1)

Advaita Das
“bhūtānāṁ bhagavān svayam - Again the same - He is Himself the Lord of all beings. It applies to bhūtānāṁ bhagavān, not just bhagavan.”

Bhakta –

patnī vikuṇṭhā śubhrasya vaikuṇṭhaiḥ sura-sattamaiḥ

tayoḥ sva-kalayā jajñe vaikuṇṭho bhagavān svayam (8.5.4)

Advaita Dās-

“tayoḥ sva-kalayā jajñe vaikuṇṭho bhagavān svayam- He came there Himself, with His śakti. From the combination of Śubhra and his wife, Vikuṇṭhā, there appeared the Supreme Lord, Vaikuṇṭha, along with devatās called the Vaikuṇṭhas, who were his expansions.”

Here the Lord is pointed out as the origin of the devatās, not the origin of Kṛṣṇa.”

Bhakta – “My point is that why Kṛṣṇa cannot be vaikuṇṭho bhagavan svayam? That verse is not saying "viṣṇuloko bhagavān svayam". Also, are there other places where it is said 'ete cāṁśa kalā puṁsaḥ' in the Bhāgavata? That other avatāras are just aṁśas?”

Advaita Das
“Yes – It is like saying Laghu Vaisnava Tosani is 'Pleasing the light Vaisnavas' - applying laghu to Vaisnavas instead of to Tosani.”

Bhakta – “They claim Brahma Samhitā is written by Jīva Goswāmī to prop up his siddhānta.”

Advaitadās – “Not true - Rūpa Goswāmī quoted Brahma Samhitā twice in chapter 2.1 of his Bhakti Rasāmṛta Sindhu, which was completed in 1541, when Jīva Goswāmi was just a child.”