This
discussion appeared in the comments-pages of a blog originally posted on May
11, 2010. The blog is deleted as obsolete, but this – unrelated - discussion is
still very valuable, so it is now a blog on its own. May 12-15, 2010
Anonymous
said...
Dear Advaita-ji,
If you permit, I would like to ask a
question. We worship/call with different names based on rasas exhibited by the
Lord. For example we worship Kṛṣṇa as Rādhā-Śyāmasundara in Mādhurya-rasa.
Could you please tell the names for Kṛṣṇa in Sakhya, śānta, vātsalya and dāsya-rasa. Thank you.
Radha Kṛṣṇa
Advaitadās –
Anon, nice question -
Actually
most of Kṛṣṇa's names are interchangeable, viz. they can be used in all
sambandhas. Hari, Govinda and Kṛṣṇa are names of Nārāyan in Vaikuṇṭha, but they
are also highly inciting for those in the extreme mādhurya of gopī bhāva. It
all depends on the interpretation [dṛṣṭi-koṇa]. Of course names like Gopāl,
Yaśoda Dulāl and Nanda Dulāl are predominantly vātsalya, but can be relished by
the gopīs just as well. Balānuja, Aghadaman and Keśī-Nāśan are some names that
feature in sakhya bhāva, but these too can be relished in vātsalya and mādhurya
bhāva. Etc etc. Śānta rati does not
feature in Vraja-bhūmi.
Anonymous said...
Dear Advaita-ji,
Thank you for answering my question.
You mentioned that "Śānta rati
does not feature in Vraja-bhumi". May be I am wrong, but I was informed
that trees in Vṛndāvana have a Śānta relationship with the Lord. Please let me
know whether this information is true or not.
Radha Kṛṣṇa
Advaitadas-
That is not correct. Caitanya Caritāmṛta
says - cāri bhāva diyā nācāimu tribhuvana "I will make the three
worlds dance in 4 bhāvas" That is of course mādhurya, vātsalya, sakhya and
dāsya. This is confirmed in Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya 22, 161:
dāsa-sakhā-pitrādi-preyasīra gaṇa
rāga-mārge nija-nija-bhāvera gaṇana
and
dāsya, sakhya, vātsalya ār ye śṛṅgāra; cāri prema, caturvidha bhaktai
ādhāra
(Caitanya-caritāmṛta Ādi 4.42)
The mountains like
Girirāja are in dāsya rasa [hantāyam adrir abalā haridāsa varyo], and the
cows are in vātsalya bhāva. Śrī Viśvanātha Cakravartī says in his
commentary on Śrīmad Bhāgavata (11.12.8) gavo vātsalya rasena. naga
govardhanādi parvataḥ sakhya-rasena - that mountains like Girirāja are in sakhya
rasa and Vraja's cows are in vātsalya rasa. He repeats that the cows
are in vātsalya rasa in his comments on Śrīmad Bhāgavata 10.14.30-31 (aho'ti-dhanya
ityādibhirāmātmaka vātsalyādi ratimanta eva stoṣyanti (30) ye tu tvad bhakteṣv
ati-prakṛṣṭas teṣāṁ tvayi śuddha vātsalyādi rati-bhājam padavīṁ prārthayitum
ayogya... (31) “I am not qualified to pray for their vātsalya rasa”),
Śrīmad Bhāgavata 10.20.26 (prītyā is the cows’ motherly affection) Śrīmad
Bhāgavata 10.21.13 - “The cows (not the calves) are in vātsalya rasa- na ca
tatrāpi vātsalya-bhāva eva mohane hetur astīti vācyam, and “The cows stand
still as they take Govinda within their hearts through their tear-filled eyes
and embrace Him out of vātsalya bhāva – sva manasaḥ kroḍe eva vātsalyāt sthāpayantyas
tasthuḥ (Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī ’s commentary) and Śrīmad Bhāgavata 10.21.16:
The clouds are in sakhya rasa (sakhyur vyadhāt) – hanta hanta
sakhya-bhāva-vanto’pyātmānāṁ kṛtarthayantītyāhuḥ
– The gopīs lament about the clouds: “Alas! Alas! Even those who are in
the mood of friendship with Kṛṣṇa (sakhya bhāva) have become blessed by
serving Him.” svīya vidyud garjanābhyāṁ pīta-vastra veṇu-nādayoḥ sāmyaṁ dṛṣṭvā
ca sakhībhāvam abhimānyamānaḥ “Seeing he is equal to Kṛṣṇa with the
rumbling sounds he makes, with his lightning (in the form of Kṛṣṇa’s yellow cloth) the cloud identifies himself
in sakhya-rasa.” (Śrī Viśvanātha Cakravartī’s commentary) The statement vaṁśī
priya sakhī from Brahma Samhita (5.56) shows that Kṛṣṇa’s flute is even in madhura
rasa.
Radha Kṛṣṇa dasa -
Dear Advaita dasa
Prabhu, dandavat pranams. It seems to me that the topic of whether or not śānta
rasa exists in Braja is not so cut and dry as Viśvanātha Cakravartī Thakur's
ṭīkā might indicate. There are
some differences in opinion amongst ācāryas on this topic. Madhavananda
dasa in former "Gaudiya Discussions" blog brought this topic up. In
that discussion Madhavananda appeared to
disagree with Śrīla Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura's commentary (see Caitanya-caritāmṛta,
Madhya, 8.294), as quoted by Śrīla A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada):
"Śrīla
Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura points out that in Vrajabhūmi there is the
Yamunā River with its sandy banks. There are kadamba trees, cows, Kṛṣṇa's
sticks with which He herds cows, and Kṛṣṇa's flute. All of these belong to śānta-rasa,
the mellow of neutrality in devotional service. There are also the direct
servants of Kṛṣṇa, such as Citraka, Patraka and Raktaka, and these are the embodiments
of service in the mellow of servitude. There are also friends like Śrīdāmā and
Sudāmā, who embody service in
fraternity. Nanda Mahārāja and mother Yaśodā are the embodiments of parental love. Above all of these are Śrīmatī
Rādhārāṇī and Her assistants, the
gopīs Lalitā, Viśākhā and others, who embody conjugal love. In this way all
five mellows — śānta, dāsya, sakhya, vātsalya and mādhurya —
exist eternally in Vrajabhūmi. They are
also compared, respectively, to copper, bell metal, silver, gold and
touchstone, the basis of all metals. Śrīla Kavirāja Gosvāmī therefore refers to
a mine eternally existing in Vṛndāvana, Vrajabhūmi."
The
above appears to be in some conflict with Bhaktivinoda's statement in Jaiva
Dharma (Ch 39) and Viśvanātha Cakravartī's commentary of various verses on Śrīmad
Bhāgavatam as well texts in Bhakti Rasāmṛta Sindhu, and Caitanya-caritāmṛta. I
have gone through all of the pertinent texts in Caitanya-caritāmṛta and Caitanya
Bhāgavat where Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī indicates that cows, sticks, flute
etc. are in śānta rasa in Vraja, and Bhaktivinoda's Jaiva Dharma,
wherein it is stated that in Vraja, śānta rasa in almost/practically
absent in Vraja. In an e-mail exchange 5 years ago, I asked Śrīpada Tripurari
Swami to harmonize these apparently contradictory statements. In particular I
also asked him: "Is it simply that there are no "humans" in śānta
rasa in Vraja, but śānta "rasa" is possible for
personalities in "animal", "plant" and
"inanimate" spiritual forms?"
Here was Maharaja's response:
"Śrī Kṛṣṇa is known as Rasaraja. This
name implies that he tastes all rasas,
and it refers to him in his Vraja-lila. From this it should be clear
that he tastes śānta rasa in Vraja. This is also confirmed in
Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 4.8.85. There Śrī Rupa writes that Kṛṣṇa tasted śānta
rasa along with all other
expressions of sacred aesthetic rapture while lifting Govardhana hill. In this
example Śrī Kṛṣṇa tastes śānta rasa from the vantage point of the shelter
(āśraya ālambana) of śānta rasa. Later in Mathurā he tasted śānta
rasa from the vantage point of the object (viṣaya ālambana) of love
when he was wrestling in Kamsa's arena, Śrīmad Bhāgavata 10.43.17. Therein it
is clearly stated that the sages present experienced śānta rasa in
relation to Śrī Kṛṣṇa. Such sages may very well include persons like Durvasa,
who also resides in Vraja proper. So śānta rasa is expressed in his
Vraja-līlā within Mathurā maṇḍala. At
the same time, Kṛṣṇa's Vraja-līlā is primarily characterized by love that is devoid of reverence, and thus it is often
said to begin with sakhya rasa. Brahmaji described all of Vṛndāvana as
being permeated by sakhya rasa when he told Śrī Kṛṣṇa-
aho bhāgyam,
aho bhāgyam
nanda
gopa vrajaukasam
yan
mitraṁ paramānandam
pūrṇaṁ
brahma sanātanam
"O
how fortunate, O how fortunate are the Vrajavāsīs of Nanda gopa, for the
supreme bliss and complete, eternal Brahman is their friend." Thus everything
and everyone in Vraja is touched by friendship. Everything and everyone is also
touched by the influence of romantic love that Kṛṣṇa's Vraja-līlā is centered
on. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākur acknowledges that śānta rati is present to some
extent in the Vraja-lila when he writes in Jaiva Dharma "At first I
thought that there was no śānta rati in the devotees of Vraja, but now I
see that it is present in them to a limited extent." Whereas in the same
book he also writes that "Śānta-rasa is absent in Vraja." Perhaps Bhaktisiddhānta
Sarasvatī Thakura sought to clarify
Bhaktivinoda Thakura's statements by attributing śānta rati to the non
human species and apparently inanimate objects of Vraja, such as Kṛṣṇa's flute,
rivers, hills, and Vraja's cows when he wrote about this in his commentary to
Upadeśāmṛta and in his commentary on Caitanya Caritāmṛta. However, Śrī Viśvanātha
Cakravartī Ṭhākura has attributed sakhya rasa to the hills of Vraja and vātsalya
rati to Śrī Kṛṣṇa's cows. So there are different opinions among ācāryas,
and human reasoning renders any of these opinions problematic.
For
example, while there is reason to believe that Vraja's cows are in vātsalya
rasa, their relationship with Śrī Kṛṣṇa is also one of being protected by
Gopala. Anyone who raises cows knows that they are as much children in need of
protection and constant care as they are mothers, and at least in Dvārakā, Kṛṣṇa's children are
considered to be in dāsya rasa. His cows are also his iṣṭa-devatā
and thus worshipable by him. Furthermore, why do we find that Rādhā and Govinda
are not inhibited in front of Vraja's bovines as they are before human elders
relishing vātsalya rati. After all, vātsayla and mādhurya rasa are not compatible.
Neither are śānta and mādhurya rasas compatible for that matter. Mahādeva and
Brahmā are said to have taken birth in Varasānā and Nandagrāma as hills, are
they in sakhya rasa? Sakhya rasa is exchanged between equals. The gopis
attribute a male gender to Kṛṣṇa's flute at one time and a female gender at
another time. Is it male, female, neither of these, or both? Sometimes the
creepers of Vraja are thought to be tasting mādhurya rati as well as the
rivers, but what is the nature of this mādhurya rati and how can it compare to
that of the gopis themselves?
Great devotees view the world through the lens of their bhāva, and this
may afford them different angles of vision at different times. Furthermore some
of Śrī Kṛṣṇa's devotees experience the suddha rati known as svaccha
(transparent), in which they taste the rati of those with whom they
associate, moving between śānta,
dasya, sakhya, and mādhurya. Thus it is best to respect the opinions
of great souls on issues that lie beyond our present realization even when we cannot fully understand them.
I hope this is helpful."
advaitadas -
Radha Kṛṣṇa das,
You are certainly entitled to your
beliefs. However, you fail to come up with evidence to counter the evidence
that I produced on the matter from universally accepted ācāryas like Kṛṣṇadās
Kavirāja Gosvāmī and Viśvanātha Cakravartī. Your reply consists partially of
quotes by recent Vaiṣṇava teachers, which
have been shown to deviate from the previous ācāryas on a large number
of issues, as well as on mundane logic, which does not apply to śāstra.
Concretely, about the mountains, I did not
say they are in sakhya rati but in dāsya rati and have proved
that from Śrīmad Bhāgavata 10.21.18. You might also like to peruse my blog of
June 19, 2008 and the comments pages of my blog of August 8, 2007, for more
evidence of there being no śānta rasa in Vraja.....
Radha Kṛṣṇa dasa -
This verse
is in Bhakti Rasāmṛta Sindhu 4.8.85. Translation (by H.H. Bhanu Swami): "Kṛṣṇa
as the āśraya of all rasas:
Though lifting up Govardhana, He remained
without pride in Himself (śānta). When the small children became eager to hold
up the mountain, He smiled (hasya, vatsala. He spat some bad-smelling yogurt (bībhatsa).
He showed off his great strength in lifting the mountain for the benefit of His
dear friends (sakhya, vīra). He displayed red eyes in looking at Indra
(raudra). He shed tears on seeing the
suffering of the inhabitants of Vraja from rain and wind (karuna). He trembled
in fear before the elders, having destroyed the sacrifice to Indra (dāsya,
bhayānaka). His eyes opened wide with astonishment on seeing the great torrents
of rain (adbhuta). His hairs stood on end when He saw the young girls (madhura). May this
master, the lifter of Govardhana, protect you!”
Jīva Gosvāmī's Commentary: Amāni
(prideless) means that Kṛṣṇa exhibited śānta-rasa
in being devoid of pride in lifting Govardhana. Trembling in front of His
elders on interrupting the sacrifice to Indra (hari-makham prasya) indicates
bhayankara-rasa. Other rasas can similarly be understood in this verse".
The above
verse is an example of Kṛṣṇa tasting śānta rasa along with all other expressions of sacred aesthetic rapture
while lifting Govardhana hill.
advaitadas -
Radha-Kṛṣṇa das,
That is granted, and
thank you for the tip. However, the three verses I quoted from Caitanya Caritāmṛta
remain evidence that, even if śānta rati would exist in Vraja/Goloka, this is
still not given by Mahaprabhu to us in this age. The explanation of the cows,
clouds, mountains etc. not being in śānta rati remain too. In this case the
answer to about the names of Kṛṣṇa would be Param Atma and Param Brahma,
because that is what Bhakti Rasāmṛta Sindhu says about the conception of the śānta
bhakta.
There was a discussion on the topic of śānta rasa in Vraja on my blog in August 2007. That part of that blog is now deleted, so I will transplant the discussion of that old comments' page to this comments page -
ReplyDeleteJagat zei...
BRS 2.5.11 is a description of "samanya bhakti", not "shanta." It fits into a category of unstable sthayi bhavas.
Wednesday, August 8, 2007 8:47:00 PM CEST
advaitadas zei...
The chapter is called 'sthayi bhava' and verse 11 is in the subdivision suddha, which seems to be śānta rasa to me, as the others are priti (dasya), sakhya, vatsalya and priyata (madhura). Of this, there is again the subdivision samanya. If this samanya is not a subdivision of śānta rati, of what is it?
Wednesday, August 8, 2007 9:32:00 PM CEST
Madhavananda zei...
This (as in Jagat's post) is also how I've understood this. The five developed sthayi-bhavas are separate from the undeveloped ones.
The little girl would obviously eventually grow up and develop some kinds of feelings towards Krishna, her actual sthayi-bhava.
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 6:42:00 PM CEST
advaitadas zei...
Krishnadas Slovakia agrees with me. He mailed me:
"Dear Advaita,
I have no clue what Jagat's point might be. Your reply gives sense to me.
Actually, I can't imagine that the structure of the text could allow a different interpretation."
Jagat never answered my question "If this samanya is not a subdivision of shanta rati, of what is it?"
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 7:03:00 PM CEST
Jagat zei...
Shanta is a subdivision of shuddha, not the other way around. Samanya and svaccha do not appear in BRS 3.1, basically because, as their definitions show, they are not _mature_ rati states: samanya because of the unfixed identity of the ashraya, svaccha because the rati is not fixed in the identity of the ashraya.
Monday, August 27, 2007 12:13:00 AM CEST
advaitadas zei...
So would you conclude then, that there is no shanta rasa in Goloka? The C.C. does say repeatedly that Mahaprabhu gives 4 rasas, and the visaya of the shanta-bhaktas is Paramatma, Parambrahma and at best the four-armed form. But what about mannistha, which is also mentioned as the qualification for shanta rati? Is that nistha for the four-armed form only?
Monday, August 27, 2007 11:14:00 AM CEST