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Tuesday, February 16, 2016

Gaur-Nitāi tattva

Bhakta:
Gaura and Nitāi together are like house holders? There is one thing -Ambika Kalna Gour Nitāi, They stand together. What is mood of Gaura and Nitāi? Main thing I want to understand is why Nitāi become Avadhūta? Is this formally his āśram or just mood? When Nitāi met Mahāprabhu he was Avadhūta?

Advaita Dās
Yes.

Bhakta:
Avadhūta means his mood? Or this type of sannyāsa?

Advaita Dās
He was not sannyāsī-ordained, it is just His mood.

Bhakta:
He still has this mood through His household life?

Advaita Dās
Not all gṛhasthas are dull.

Bhakta:
I understand. But Mahāprabhu had Him married so He would not be some crazy mad preacher.

Advaita Dās
He asked Him to marry to preach to the grass roots. It doesn't mean He went dull. Some of my gṛhastha-Godbrothers are very eccentric too.

Bhakta:
Nityānanda Caritamrita, which is just a compilation of original texts from Vrindavan das Thākur, states that Nitāi in his first meeting with Gaura was hiding and he was dressed like a sannyāsī.

Advaita Dās
This is not official śāstra, but a compilation, like you say.

Bhakta:
Yes. This book also stated that Nitāi was wearing a Kurta.

Advaita Dās
Nitāi and Haridās preached, dressed like sannyāsīs. It is described in Caitanya Bhāgavat. But that was not non-stop, just on occasion.

Bhakta:
It means they were dressed like bābājīs?

Advaita Dās
No, that dress was introduced later by Sanātan Gosvāmī in Caitanya Caritāmṛta, see Madhya 20.77-78.

Bhakta:
But look there is also the story that dor kaupin was given to Haridās by Advaita ācārya.

Advaita Dās
Yes, but that’s different, because Haridāsji never married afterwards.

Bhakta:
But Nitāi was not a sannyāsī – then why He dressed like that?

Advaita Dās
He is avadhūta - they are beyond rules.

Bhakta:
It sounds funny because there are some points - when they preaching with Haridās Thākur Nitāi went up to girls and told them to get married with him -really crazy stuff and so funny.

Advaita Dās
Yes. It is all līlā, for us to relish, but not for us to follow. All their audience were also devotees. If that were real then why Mahāprabhu condemned Chota Haridās to death, and why there is the vomit-eater śloka in the 7th canto of the Bhāgavat (7.15.36)?

Bhakta:
Gaura is Kṛṣṇa Himself? With all His paraphernalia and energies, right?

Advaita Dās
Not in the same shape, but ontologically.

Bhakta:
There is 4 things that make Kṛṣṇa special – veṇu-, līla-, rūpa- and prema-mādhurya.

Advaita Dās
Yes, but Gaur has no flute.

Bhakta:
That is my question. All other things He has – līlā mādhurya and wonderful devotees. But what about the flute? Gaura can't wear a flute.

Advaita Dās
No. The shape is different – Gaura and Kṛṣṇa’s complexion, caste, nature, purpose - all are different. No cows, no peacock feather.

Bhakta:
Tattva is one, līlā is different. That's why these 4 things are different? There is one organizational doubt I have. We worship Gaura Nitāi, but this worship of Gaura Nitāi is as both of Them being house holders at the same time - Mahāprabhu is not sanyāsī and Nitāi is not avadhūt -but there is different times of their house life -Nitāi got married after Gour became a sannyāsī.

Advaita Dās
Gaur Nitāi were a team also after Gaur took sannyāsa.

Bhakta:
No. They were no team anymore after that.

Advaita Dās
During ratha-yātrā in Puri, and the monsoon meetings in Puri.

Bhakta:
Mahāprabhu send Nitāi to preach and cry for Kṛṣṇa.

Advaita Dās
Read Caitanya Caritāmṛta’s Ratha-yātrā līlā. Nitāi was not always preaching in Bengal. Read Antya līlā, Madhya 10-15.

Bhakta:
But we can't worship Mahāprabhu as a sanyāsi. It gives pain to the hearts of the devotees.

Advaita Dās
That is hearsay and folklore only. It may give pain to devotees who love Him as a gṛhastha but there is no prohibition against bhakti for Gaura as a sannyāsī anywhere. Śrīla Rūpa and Raghunātha Dās' Caitanyāṣṭakams are all about Gaur as sannyāsi. Look them up, in Stavāvalī/Stavamālā. Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya's śatakam too…

Bhakta:
Yes this correct.  Sarvabhauma’s prayer about sannyāsa Mahāprabhu is there. But you never find any deity in Puri of Sannyasa Gour and Nitāi nearby. All Thakurs are ṣaḍ-bhuja.

Advaita Dās
That's something else.

Bhakta:
No. It is the same, because this is the tradition.

Advaita Dās
OK but we are speaking līlā, not deities. That's a totally different thing.

Bhakta:
No one can make stupid deities. No way.

Advaita Dās
It is not a question of deities being stupid. These are 2 separate things.

Bhakta:
Līlā is in Thākurs also. Ambikā Kalnā-deities are part of Līlā.

Advaita Dās
The deity of Kṛṣṇa wears a different color dress every day, but in His līlā Kṛṣṇa only wears yellow. Same with Rādhā – She wears only blue in the līlā. The deities are different every day. These are different things.

Bhakta:
No. Thakur ji is non different. Even if he dress in this stupid cloth. It's means that he looks for our sevā in the form of the vigraha.

Advaita Dās
Yes.

Bhakta:
There are 5 forms - One is arcā, One is swayam bhagavān. No difference!!!!

Advaita Dās
Yes dear there is no difference but also there is, just as Gaur and Kṛṣṇa are different and non-different. tattva is non different, remember?

Bhakta –
Yesterday I found one letter of Prabhupāda stating that we must worship Gaura as a gṛhastha.

Advaita Dās
Sure, that's also the babājīs' stance, but still all svarūpas of Gaur are eternal. See the Caitanya- aṣṭakams and the śatakam, with Gaura's sannyās swarūp. If it’s not eternal it would be false. If Gaur is God how can He be false in 1 feature?

Bhakta -
If we install Mahāprabhu’s sannyāsa mūrti how can ladies take darśan? It's against the will of Mahāprabhu. Not all ladies are the same as Mādhavī Devī. There is more audarya in gṛhastha Līlā -in sannyāsa Līlā even a king can't be close to Mahāprabhu.

Advaita Dās
Yes these things are true. Again, arcanam is not same as līlā - ladies can surely have darśana of Mahāprabhu's deity. The same rules don’t apply there. Audarya may be greater in gṛhastha-līlā, but absorption in gopī-bhāva is greater in the sannyāsa-līlā. By the way, Mahāprabhu ultimately did grant His darśana to Mahārāja Pratāpa-rudra.

1 comment:

  1. I've understood the matter of madhurya and audarya in Gaura-lila differently. The pre sannyasa-pastimes are madhurya-mayi, as in "home sweet home". There is also madhurya as in gopi-bhava, apparent in the enacting of scenes from rasa-kavya at Srivas Angam, Mahaprabhu calling Pundarika his father and chanting "gopi, gopi, gopi". The sannyasa-pastimes are aisvarya-mayi in that people in general cannot get as close to him, but audarya in that he is setting an example, showing how we can enter the madhurya-mayi lila by sadhana.

    /Syamananda dasa

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