Gaur-Nitāi tattva

Bhakta:

Gaura and Nitāi together are like house holders? There is one thing -Ambika Kalna Gour Nitāi, They stand together. What is mood of Gaura and Nitāi? Main thing I want to understand is why Nitāi become Avadhūta? Is this formally his āśram or just mood? When Nitāi met Mahāprabhu he was Avadhūta?

Advaita Dās

Yes.

Bhakta:

Avadhūta means his mood? Or this type of sannyāsa?

Advaita Dās

He was not sannyāsī-ordained, it is just His mood.

Bhakta:

He still has this mood through His household life?

Advaita Dās

Not all gṛhasthas are dull.

Bhakta:

I understand. But Mahāprabhu had Him married so He would not be some crazy mad preacher.

Advaita Dās

He asked Him to marry to preach to the grass roots. It doesn't mean He went dull. Some of my gṛhastha-Godbrothers are very eccentric too.

Bhakta:

Nityānanda Caritamrita, which is just a compilation of original texts from Vrindavan das Thākur, states that Nitāi in his first meeting with Gaura was hiding and he was dressed like a sannyāsī.

Advaita Dās

This is not official śāstra, but a compilation, like you say.

Bhakta:

Yes. This book also stated that Nitāi was wearing a Kurta.

Advaita Dās

Nitāi and Haridās preached, dressed like sannyāsīs. It is described in Caitanya Bhāgavat. But that was not non-stop, just on occasion.

Bhakta:

It means they were dressed like bābājīs?

Advaita Dās

No, that dress was introduced later by Sanātan Gosvāmī in Caitanya Caritāmṛta, see Madhya 20.77-78.

Bhakta:

But look there is also the story that dor kaupin was given to Haridās by Advaita ācārya.

Advaita Dās

Yes, but that’s different, because Haridāsji never married afterwards.

Bhakta:

But Nitāi was not a sannyāsī – then why He dressed like that?

Advaita Dās

He is avadhūta - they are beyond rules.

Bhakta:

It sounds funny because there are some points - when they preaching with Haridās Thākur Nitāi went up to girls and told them to get married with him -really crazy stuff and so funny.

Advaita Dās

Yes. It is all līlā, for us to relish, but not for us to follow. All their audience were also devotees. If that were real then why Mahāprabhu condemned Chota Haridās to death, and why there is the vomit-eater śloka in the 7^th canto of the Bhāgavat (7.15.36)?

Bhakta:

Gaura is Kṛṣṇa Himself? With all His paraphernalia and energies, right?

Advaita Dās

Not in the same shape, but ontologically.

Bhakta:

There is 4 things that make Kṛṣṇa special – veṇu-, līla-, rūpa- and prema-mādhurya.

Advaita Dās

Yes, but Gaur has no flute.

Bhakta:

That is my question. All other things He has – līlā mādhurya and wonderful devotees. But what about the flute? Gaura can't wear a flute.

Advaita Dās

No. The shape is different – Gaura and Kṛṣṇa’s complexion, caste, nature, purpose - all are different. No cows, no peacock feather.

Bhakta:

Tattva is one, līlā is different. That's why these 4 things are different? There is one organizational doubt I have. We worship Gaura Nitāi, but this worship of Gaura Nitāi is as both of Them being house holders at the same time - Mahāprabhu is not sanyāsī and Nitāi is not avadhūt -but there is different times of their house life -Nitāi got married after Gour became a sannyāsī.

Advaita Dās

Gaur Nitāi were a team also after Gaur took sannyāsa.

Bhakta:

No. They were no team anymore after that.

Advaita Dās

During ratha-yātrā in Puri, and the monsoon meetings in Puri.

Bhakta:

Mahāprabhu send Nitāi to preach and cry for Kṛṣṇa.

Advaita Dās

Read Caitanya Caritāmṛta’s Ratha-yātrā līlā. Nitāi was not always preaching in Bengal. Read Antya līlā, Madhya 10-15.

Bhakta:

But we can't worship Mahāprabhu as a sanyāsi. It gives pain to the hearts of the devotees.

Advaita Dās

That is hearsay and folklore only. It may give pain to devotees who love Him as a gṛhastha but there is no prohibition against bhakti for Gaura as a sannyāsī anywhere. Śrīla Rūpa and Raghunātha Dās' Caitanyāṣṭakams are all about Gaur as sannyāsi. Look them up, in Stavāvalī/Stavamālā. Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya's śatakam too…

Bhakta:

Yes this correct.  Sarvabhauma’s prayer about sannyāsa Mahāprabhu is there. But you never find any deity in Puri of Sannyasa Gour and Nitāi nearby. All Thakurs are ṣaḍ-bhuja.

Advaita Dās

That's something else.

Bhakta:

No. It is the same, because this is the tradition.

Advaita Dās

OK but we are speaking līlā, not deities. That's a totally different thing.

Bhakta:

No one can make stupid deities. No way.

Advaita Dās

It is not a question of deities being stupid. These are 2 separate things.

Bhakta:

Līlā is in Thākurs also. Ambikā Kalnā-deities are part of Līlā.

Advaita Dās

The deity of Kṛṣṇa wears a different color dress every day, but in His līlā Kṛṣṇa only wears yellow. Same with Rādhā – She wears only blue in the līlā. The deities are different every day. These are different things.

Bhakta:

No. Thakur ji is non different. Even if he dress in this stupid cloth. It's means that he looks for our sevā in the form of the vigraha.

Advaita Dās

Yes.

Bhakta:

There are 5 forms - One is arcā, One is swayam bhagavān. No difference!!!!

Advaita Dās

Yes dear there is no difference but also there is, just as Gaur and Kṛṣṇa are different and non-different. tattva is non different, remember?

Bhakta –

Yesterday I found one letter of Prabhupāda stating that we must worship Gaura as a gṛhastha.

Advaita Dās

Sure, that's also the babājīs' stance, but still all svarūpas of Gaur are eternal. See the Caitanya- aṣṭakams and the śatakam, with Gaura's sannyās swarūp. If it’s not eternal it would be false. If Gaur is God how can He be false in 1 feature?

Bhakta -

If we install Mahāprabhu’s sannyāsa mūrti how can ladies take darśan? It's against the will of Mahāprabhu. Not all ladies are the same as Mādhavī Devī. There is more audarya in gṛhastha Līlā -in sannyāsa Līlā even a king can't be close to Mahāprabhu.

Advaita Dās

Yes these things are true. Again, arcanam is not same as līlā - ladies can surely have darśana of Mahāprabhu's deity. The same rules don’t apply there. Audarya may be greater in gṛhastha-līlā, but absorption in gopī-bhāva is greater in the sannyāsa-līlā. By the way, Mahāprabhu ultimately did grant His darśana to Mahārāja Pratāpa-rudra.