Bhakta:
Gaura
and Nitāi together are like house holders? There is one thing -Ambika Kalna
Gour Nitāi, They stand together. What is mood of Gaura and Nitāi? Main thing I want
to understand is why Nitāi become Avadhūta? Is this formally his āśram or just mood?
When Nitāi met Mahāprabhu he was Avadhūta?
Advaita
Dās
Yes.
Bhakta:
Avadhūta
means his mood? Or this type of sannyāsa?
Advaita
Dās
He
was not sannyāsī-ordained, it is just His mood.
Bhakta:
He
still has this mood through His household life?
Advaita
Dās
Not
all gṛhasthas are dull.
Bhakta:
I
understand. But Mahāprabhu had Him married so He would not be some crazy mad
preacher.
Advaita
Dās
He
asked Him to marry to preach to the grass roots. It doesn't mean He went dull.
Some of my gṛhastha-Godbrothers are very eccentric too.
Bhakta:
Nityānanda
Caritamrita, which is just a compilation of original texts from Vrindavan das
Thākur, states that Nitāi in his first meeting with Gaura was hiding and he was
dressed like a sannyāsī.
Advaita
Dās
This
is not official śāstra, but a compilation, like you say.
Bhakta:
Yes.
This book also stated that Nitāi was wearing a Kurta.
Advaita
Dās
Nitāi
and Haridās preached, dressed like sannyāsīs. It is described in Caitanya Bhāgavat.
But that was not non-stop, just on occasion.
Bhakta:
It
means they were dressed like bābājīs?
Advaita
Dās
No,
that dress was introduced later by Sanātan Gosvāmī in Caitanya Caritāmṛta, see Madhya
20.77-78.
Bhakta:
But
look there is also the story that dor kaupin was given to Haridās by Advaita
ācārya.
Advaita
Dās
Yes,
but that’s different, because Haridāsji never married afterwards.
Bhakta:
But
Nitāi was not a sannyāsī – then why He dressed like that?
Advaita
Dās
He
is avadhūta - they are beyond rules.
Bhakta:
It
sounds funny because there are some points - when they preaching with Haridās
Thākur Nitāi went up to girls and told them to get married with him -really
crazy stuff and so funny.
Advaita
Dās
Yes.
It is all līlā, for us to relish, but not for us to follow. All their audience were also devotees. If
that were real then why Mahāprabhu condemned Chota Haridās to death, and why there
is the vomit-eater śloka in the 7th canto of the Bhāgavat (7.15.36)?
Bhakta:
Gaura
is Kṛṣṇa Himself? With all His paraphernalia and energies, right?
Advaita
Dās
Not
in the same shape, but ontologically.
Bhakta:
There
is 4 things that make Kṛṣṇa special – veṇu-,
līla-, rūpa- and prema-mādhurya.
Advaita
Dās
Yes,
but Gaur has no flute.
Bhakta:
That
is my question. All other things He has – līlā
mādhurya and wonderful devotees. But what about the flute? Gaura can't wear
a flute.
Advaita
Dās
No.
The shape is different – Gaura and Kṛṣṇa’s complexion, caste, nature, purpose -
all are different. No cows, no peacock feather.
Bhakta:
Tattva is one, līlā
is different. That's why these 4 things are different? There is one
organizational doubt I have. We worship Gaura Nitāi, but this worship of Gaura Nitāi
is as both of Them being house holders at the same time - Mahāprabhu is not
sanyāsī and Nitāi is not avadhūt -but there is different times of their house
life -Nitāi got married after Gour became a sannyāsī.
Advaita
Dās
Gaur
Nitāi were a team also after Gaur took sannyāsa.
Bhakta:
No.
They were no team anymore after that.
Advaita
Dās
During
ratha-yātrā in Puri, and the monsoon meetings in Puri.
Bhakta:
Mahāprabhu
send Nitāi to preach and cry for Kṛṣṇa.
Advaita
Dās
Read
Caitanya Caritāmṛta’s Ratha-yātrā līlā. Nitāi was not always preaching in Bengal.
Read Antya līlā, Madhya 10-15.
Bhakta:
But
we can't worship Mahāprabhu as a sanyāsi. It gives pain to the hearts of the
devotees.
Advaita
Dās
That
is hearsay and folklore only. It may give pain to devotees who love Him as a gṛhastha
but there is no prohibition against bhakti for Gaura as a sannyāsī anywhere. Śrīla
Rūpa and Raghunātha Dās' Caitanyāṣṭakams are all about Gaur as sannyāsi. Look
them up, in Stavāvalī/Stavamālā. Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya's śatakam too…
Bhakta:
Yes
this correct. Sarvabhauma’s prayer about
sannyāsa Mahāprabhu is there. But you never find any deity in Puri of Sannyasa
Gour and Nitāi nearby. All Thakurs are ṣaḍ-bhuja.
Advaita
Dās
That's
something else.
Bhakta:
No.
It is the same, because this is the tradition.
Advaita
Dās
OK
but we are speaking līlā, not deities. That's a totally different thing.
Bhakta:
No
one can make stupid deities. No way.
Advaita
Dās
It
is not a question of deities being stupid. These are 2 separate things.
Bhakta:
Līlā
is in Thākurs also. Ambikā Kalnā-deities are part of Līlā.
Advaita
Dās
The
deity of Kṛṣṇa wears a different color dress every day, but in His līlā Kṛṣṇa
only wears yellow. Same with Rādhā – She wears only blue in the līlā. The deities
are different every day. These are different things.
Bhakta:
No.
Thakur ji is non different. Even if he dress in this stupid cloth. It's means
that he looks for our sevā in the form of the vigraha.
Advaita
Dās
Yes.
Bhakta:
There
are 5 forms - One is arcā, One is swayam bhagavān. No difference!!!!
Advaita
Dās
Yes
dear there is no difference but also there is, just as Gaur and Kṛṣṇa are different
and non-different. tattva is non different, remember?
Bhakta
–
Yesterday
I found one letter of Prabhupāda stating that we must worship Gaura as a gṛhastha.
Advaita
Dās
Sure,
that's also the babājīs' stance, but still all svarūpas of Gaur are eternal.
See the Caitanya- aṣṭakams and the śatakam, with Gaura's sannyās swarūp. If it’s not
eternal it would be false. If Gaur is God how can He be false in 1 feature?
Bhakta
-
If
we install Mahāprabhu’s sannyāsa mūrti how can ladies take darśan? It's against
the will of Mahāprabhu. Not all ladies are the same as Mādhavī Devī. There is
more audarya in gṛhastha Līlā -in sannyāsa Līlā even a king can't be close to Mahāprabhu.
Advaita
Dās
Yes
these things are true. Again, arcanam is not same as līlā - ladies can surely have darśana of Mahāprabhu's deity. The same rules don’t
apply there. Audarya may be greater in gṛhastha-līlā, but absorption in gopī-bhāva is greater in the
sannyāsa-līlā. By the way, Mahāprabhu ultimately did grant His darśana to
Mahārāja Pratāpa-rudra.