Radhe! What is your opinion on VEGANISM in regards
to Kṛṣṇa-bhakti? For 9 weeks my
wife and I went on a vegan-diet and we BOTH experienced a loss and diminution
of our bhakti...we distanced ourselves more and more from Sri Sri Radha
Mohan...
Advaitadās -Veganism it is not Vedic or Vaiṣṇava. Offerings to the Lord
are detailed in śāstra, like Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta and Śrī Govinda Līlāmṛta.
Friend - what about the "cruelty" against
the cows...offering their "tortured" milk is bad
not suitable for Kṛṣṇa. Is it not much more
merciful to offer the milk of these poor cows to Kṛṣṇa and they get benefit?
Advaitadās - Yes. Horrible as the status quo may be, at least
some of their milk will be used in Kṛṣṇa’s service. Is it not much more merciful to offer
the milk of these poor cows to Kṛṣṇa and they get benefit still? If you boycott a poor
man he will starve. It is the little we can do for them. Let’s face it – 1 in 7
human beings is Hindu. We will not convince the 6,000,000,000 others to protect
mother cow, and we will have to live in this world somehow.”
Friend - IMHO, vegans put THEIR personal
"stuff" over the desire of Kṛṣṇa, right? For their well-being…..
Advaitadās - It can be meant compassionately but it deprives
the poor cows from that little service they can give.
Friend - A vegan-abhisekha is aparadha, right?
Advaitadās - What is in the abhisek then, just water? Fruit-juice?
Coca cola?
Friend - I experienced one and it felt wrong -
soya-milk, soya-yoghurt
Advaitadās - This is all speculation - hippy/new age samskāra…..
Friend - "Actually, in my line of bhakti, we
consider ourselves to be maidservants of Srimati Radhika, manjaris. To REALLY please
Kṛṣṇa, we have to take shelter
(āśraya) in those who LOVE Him
the most. Srimati Radhika loves Kṛṣṇa the most and we are Her intimate friends. Is She
offerering Him vegan sweets? Tofu? Seitan? Nope. Name ONE non-dairy sweet which
Kṛṣṇa loves!"
This I wrote in an article. How can we refuse to
offer milk?
Advaitadās - Right. Dairy is essential to kṛṣṇa-bhakti.”
Friend - Can you back this up? I like that
Advaitadās - like I said, look at Govinda Līlāmṛta, 3.44-60 –
Mother Yaśodā said: “O mother Lalite!
Make Rasālā, condensed milk with sugar and camphor! O Viśākhe! Quickly make
Ṣārab (a dairy-drink with sugar, cardamom, ghī and honey)! O Śaśilekhe! Make
Śikhariṇī (a similar dairy-delicacy)! O daughter Campaka-late! Make buttermilk
(mathita)!............O Sudevi! Make kṣīra-sāra (sweet rice)!............O
Manojñe! Mike ripe mango-juice and keep it in condensed milk (kṣīra-yuta) with
sugar! O Kilimbe! Make ghī from the milk which was taken from the cow Sugandhā
this morning an from which I churned yoghurt (payaso dadhinī)! O Ambike!
Slightly stir the milk that Nanda Mahārāja personally milked from the cow
Dhavalā and which he sent here for Krṣṇa-Balarāma’s consumption! O girls!
Quickly take the best milk, which was taken from the meadows by the
milk-porters, on the stove and start slowly stirring it!”
Friend - Many angas of
bhakti include "milk" in one form or the other, right? puja, too. ghee...
Advaitadās - Best to make ghee yourself. But milk is
everywhere...
These are the top 10 cattle and
beef producing countries –
Beef production (1000 MT CWE)
Rank Country 2009 2010
1 United States 11,889 11,789
2 Brazil 8,935 9,300
3 EU-27 7,970 7,920
4 China 5,764 5,550
5 Argentina 3,400 2,800
6 India 2,610 2,760 (up 5.7%)
7 Australia 2,100 2,075
8 Mexico 1,700 1,735
9 Russia 1,285 1,260
10 Pakistan 1,226 1,250
So taking dairy in India is
almost as violent as in the EU or US. I have a kapha-constitution so my face is
always full of mucus. Hence I take little to no dairy myself, as it greatly
increases mucus. I’m vegan by default. But being vegan without having a
mucus-problem, or showering the deities with juice or soy milk is really māyā. There are many who argue
that dairy is really unhealthy, as are fried and sweet things. I am not saying
one should overindulge in these things, but to refuse mahā-prasāda or caraṇāmṛta
because of dairy, sugar, fat or chilli will cause aparādha. One can take a
small quantity, to honor the Lord. I knew a devotee in Amsterdam who refused
prasāda because it was ‘too fatty, sweet, spicy, milky’ – he died of cancer
aged 33, while I knew Bengali devotees who indulged in all these things and
became 96-97 years old. You do not live long by your own scheming, but by the
will of the lord. Māre kṛṣṇa rākhe ke rākhe kṛṣṇa māre ke.
Advaitadas
ReplyDeleteThis is a strawman. "It can be meant compassionately but it deprives the poor cows from that little service they can give.". What if there is no cow where no little service can be deprived of?
I am vegan and I also don't sit on a mat made of animal skin to do meditation as were the practice of sadhus of yore! So...
Fact is, there are so many practices by devotees that are more appropriate to specific time and place. Some devotees after careful considerations came to conclude that cooperating with the despicable livestock/dairy industry is wrong and decide to go on a vegan diet. What is wrong with that?
Being a vegetarian or vegan has nothing to do with how deep your love for Krishna is. Afterall, those activities you mentioned where milk is needed are vaidhi or activities governed by rules and regulation and/or mostly are cultural in nature.
My realization is this. Lead an honest life and try to always remember and love Krishna wherever you are. Isn't that the goal of raganuga bhakti.
I think it's time to go beyond bookish realization and just let the God in your heart dictate how you will live your life.
Mālati Di, point for point -
ReplyDelete1. If there is no cow where no little service can be DERIVED of, then that is very sad, but does that mean that NO cow is allowed to serve Kṛṣṇa?
2. Time and place have nothing to do with this. I showed the statistic that says India is the 6th biggest beef producer. Milk is available everywhere.
3. Did I ever deny the livestock industry is evil?
4. What is wrong with that is that there is scriptural evidence and devotional tradition, or paramparā which is being deviated from.
5. abhiṣeka is not vaidhi - it is practised in all rāgānugā temples and āśramas in the world.
6. Culture is an inseparable part of spiritual life - it is spiritual culture. Separating culture from spiritual life is māyāvāda, as if there is something 'unreal' or inferior about sādhanā.
7. I cannot imagine what is 'bookish' about a basic subject like food.
8. Love for Kṛṣṇa means following Guru-śāstra-sādhu, not acting whimsically.
9. Is it 'God in your heart' or some TV propaganda which influences you?
So, livestock is evil, but let us use the cows from this industry for own own good! Sorry cows :( I have to do my service... I'm sure Krishna is not happy with that. He cares more for his cows, than gor a glass of milk in his offering.
DeletePoint by point too.
ReplyDeleteI find it funny when you said "Hence I take little to no dairy myself, as it greatly increases mucus. I’m vegan by default." So what is your point? In the end you seemed to say that there is a big GV tent by which all devotees,vegetarians and vegans, can live and practice their own individual realizations.
1. Of course most things can be used to serve Krishna but does it mean that because I am vegan, I can't let my cow (supposing I have one in my backyard) to serve Krishna? You think there's only one way?
2. "Milk is available everywhere" Not really. In the Philippines, cows do not thrive naturally; it's a tropical country. What we have in abundance there are carabaos (in the same family as cows) but they don't produce milk more than the needs of their babies. Milk is very expensive there. When I was a child I remember milk is in the form of canned liquid milk or else powder milk and they were imported from Finland. Then I later learned that the dairy industry in the Phils. were being developed but then they have to put the cows in air conditioned shed to induce milk production. That's unnatural not to mention like prostituting the cows to produce milk.
Anyway, in ISKCON Phils when I was there, they used powder milk, and you can just imagine how many processing it had to undergo in the factory. Now at this very moment, I'm thinking they can use soymilk instead which is also very healthy, more natural and goodtasting and really the Filipino's milk. Will Krishna not accept the soymilk offered by the Filipinos? Or coconut milk drink which is also a very well loved drink in the country. If you offer it with love, I will accept it-- sounds familiar, no?
Anyway, this kind of inflexible attitude shows that as if Krisha is bound by geographic location . This is my realization: love for and service to Krishna is culture independent.
3. You didn't and good for you.
4. Just think about what I said in no.2. Yes, tradition is one of the ways to hold the line but I think the most important aspect that will hold the line and make GV universally appealing is the siddhanta, the raganuga philosophy and not some external very India- centric practices.
ReplyDeleteWhat scriptural evidence? This is the verse. BG 9.26 " If one offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, a flower, fruit or water, I will accept it."
5. "Abhiseka is vaidhi." I doubt it, I think it is vaidhi. One may not go to a temple or even to India and still be a very fixed-up devotee. All one has to do is develop and grow his relationship with Krishna. Isn't that what raganuga is about?
6. Sure we have to pay great respects to the culture that develop the GV system. But culture also carries with it specific practices appropriate to its time and place. Do you think we should apply the guidelines from the Laws of Manu (cutting fingers for people who are thief) in this age? It maybe a very great social system during its time but India has moved on from it.
ReplyDeleteThe only culture that we should take is the culture of Krishna consciousness; remembering him, singing his glories, offering our food to him, seeing him in everyone and everything which leads to good human nature. That's a hard call sure, but that is the only culture I aspire for. I don't want to become Indian. It's bad enough to be a Filipino-Australian and it's worst to assume a third identity.
7. I mean "real" realization is going beyond the literal. Sorry, if I didn't explain myself well about the bookish comment.
I remember Sadhu Baba said that the descriptions in the shastras are pale in comparison to the absolute reality. My own understanding is that words are just representations or symbols for what is "real". They may even be shadows of the real. The concept of God is ineffable, incapable of being easily expressed or understood.
One of the criticisms made by the Advaitins is that we, those into temple worship activities, are not very intelligent because we have to see something before it can make impressions in our lives. I think they do have a point. However, I think our philosophy of raganuga which is what GVism is really about is what they don't know so as for them to make that false assertion.
8. I agree with you. But think about BG 9.26. That's shastra. And if the sadhus of the past age live now I will explain to them why I chose not to be part of the cog of the industry that prostitute animals. Also the fact is some people, like in the the north of england can't drink cows milk, they get sick because they don't have the gene to digest and therefore they are intolerant to lactose, I read that somewhere. Should they not be given some margin? So they can't be GV devotees.
9. Weird , that you drill me on this when you yourself is a vegan. I don't follow closely what animal welfare organizations do.
I'll tell you this my best realization can be found in more real life practical things than going to temples. The other day I saw a bird dying on the lawn in my backyard. Our dog was trying to reach for him and I was chanting on my beads that time. Still I immediately ran to protect the dying bird; it's breathing heavily, gasping for it's last breath, lifting its body to try to fly. I started patting to comfort it, at the same time chanting the Hare Krishna mantra to the bird and saying in my mind that it may have a better life next time so it will have the intelligence to find meaning and go higher one better in the cycle of life. That experience is one of my deeper understanding of what raganuga is about.
Mālati,
ReplyDeletemy point is that if you are sick you can refuyse prasād.
1. Does not make any sense to me.
2. There's little milk in Bengal too, and it was never served in Bābā's āśrama. If it's not there you don't offer, obviously. But abhiṣeka's not done with Coca Cola there either.
4. I said earlier that separating culture from sādhana is māyāvāda. This is merely intellectual speculation. GV will never be 'universally appealing'. Gita says repeatedly that a devotee is very rare.
Gita 9.26 does not forbid milk. I quoted so much evidence in this very blog that Kṛṣṇa's offered so much dairy. Did you read the blog at all?
5. Mālati,DO NOT THINK. ācāryas have done that for you already. You JUST FOLLOW. All rāgānugā temples do abhiṣeka - WITH COWS' MILK.
Mālati -Do you think we should apply the guidelines from the Laws of Manu (cutting fingers for people who are thief) in this age?
ReplyDeleteAdvaitadās - Yes. In Holland a killer gets 1 year jail. Do you want THAT in this age? Heard of ātatāyīs?
Mālatī - It maybe a very great social system during its time but India has moved on from it.
Advaitadās - It is called Kali yuga. India's now ruled by Catholics and Muslims.
Mālati - I don't want to become Indian.
Advaitadās - Nobody tells you to get hooked on beedis and cricket. Just be a Vaisṇava. Vaiṣṇavism did'nt come from Buenos Aires, you know.
Mālati - 7. I mean "real" realization is going beyond the literal. Sorry, if I didn't explain myself well about the bookish comment.
Advaitadās - This is māyāvāda and śāstra nindā, one nāmāparādha. There is nothing between the lines of śāstra. The words are not material.
Mālatī - I remember Sadhu Baba said that the descriptions in the shastras are pale in comparison to the absolute reality.
Advaitadās - Bābā NEVER said that. śāstra is itself the Absolute Consciousness.
Mālatī - My own understanding is that words are just representations or symbols for what is "real". They may even be shadows of the real. The concept of God is ineffable, incapable of being easily expressed or understood.
Advaitadās - This is complete māyāvāda.
Mālatī - Also the fact is some people, like in the north of england can't drink cows milk, they get sick because they don't have the gene to digest and therefore they are intolerant to lactose, I read that somewhere. Should they not be given some margin? So they can't be GV devotees.
Advaitadās - I said repeatedly I don't drink milk MYSELF because of mucus. Where there is health and milk, offer milk.
Evidence against vegans in Śrīmad Bhāgavat 10.24.26 - sarva dohaś ca gṛhyatam - ALL diary products are to be taken [offered to Mount Goverdhan] comments - kṣīra dadhi takra [vijayadhwaj] milk, yoghurt, whey. dudgdha dadhyādi [viśvanāth and baladeva] - milk yoghurt and more. doho dugdham [sanātan goswāmī] milk.
ReplyDeleteAdvaita das, my dear
ReplyDeleteI read your replies and I can see red herring and strawman. Anyway, just a
quick reply.
Advaitadās - Bābā NEVER said that. śāstra is itself the Absolute Consciousness.
Baba did say that and I read that in your bio of him on your other site. If I remember right, he was talking about the description of the activities of birds in the lila. When I have time, I'll look it up again. As you very well know Baba was not a conventional type of guru and that is the reason I like him.
Advaitadas: Evidence against vegans in Śrīmad Bhāgavat 10.24.26 - sarva dohaś ca gṛhyatam - ALL diary products are to be taken [offered to Mount Goverdhan] comments - kṣīra dadhi takra [vijayadhwaj] milk, yoghurt, whey. dudgdha dadhyādi [viśvanāth and baladeva] - milk yoghurt and more. doho dugdham [sanātan goswāmī] milk.
I don't know if your translation is correct ; I'll check-out my book. Anyway, if I face in the next life the head judge, I will say that in the time when I lived on planet earth I learned more about how the industry operates and I realize that I am snatching foods that are meant for the cow babies and I also learned that honey is produced by the bees by regurgitating the nectar, meaning, eating it and partially digesting it in their stomach and then expelling into their mouth and then partially digesting it again in their stomach, and they do it a number of times, which I find yucky, besides honey is meant for their tribes not my tribe.
If you have issues with the above sentences, you will admit though that the shastras aside from making philosophical assertions are also historical snapshots of what people did based on the prevailing cultural habits of the time and they acted upon many circumstances based on the knowledge they had on hand at the time. I don't think humanity in general is static and I don't think our faith or spiritual practices should be.
In the end, I'd say that though we may have been given the same "set of data" we have arrived at a different way of making realizations by which we lead our lives.
Still, hope you are getting the blessings you came to the dhama for.
If you have issues with the above sentences, you will admit though that the shastras aside from making philosophical assertions are also historical snapshots of what people did based on the prevailing cultural habits of the time and they acted upon many circumstances based on the knowledge they had on hand at the time. I don't think humanity in general is static and I don't think our faith or spiritual practices should be.
ReplyDelete--------------
I'm sorry to interrupt your sweet dialogue, but that seems that respected mataji doesn't understand that śāstra is apauruṣeya and anādi, which means that śruti was never created or written by ANYONE and there was NO point in time WHEN it was done. Śruti describes activity of Devatās and Ṛsis who are still alive actually and those rules described in śāstra are eternal rules, they are not meant for any time, place or circumstances.
Mālati -
ReplyDelete1. Honey is also prescribed in śāstra.
2. I find it quite shocking that
a. You think I'm making false translations ["I don't know if your translation is correct ; I'll check-out my book."]
b. You don't know basic sanskṛt words like dadhi [yoghurt] and dugdha [milk]
3. I am curious about your evidence that Bābā said reality pales the śāstra, or anything even remotely resembling that.
4. Bābā was eccentric but not an offender of śāstra or an intellectual upstart who thinks he stands above śāstra.
Ananta Govinda: Your assertions are as good as mine.
ReplyDeleteNewsflash: My realization is that God is not literally the couple having sexual intercourse. My realizations are more nuanced and subtle than yours.
Advaitadas: I read it from Baba’s bio on your other site. Give me time and I will find it. I must admit that I read it maybe 6 years ago. If you didn’t change anything since then I will find it.
Stop painting Baba as a conventional type of guru. In his bio also, didn’t Baba say that by clapping two times (I think) and saying Radhe RAdhe loudly your done with your sadhana for the day. He’s not a kind of guru that prescribes numbers. I actually much later read on a Buddhist forum that that idea is also a Buddhist idea , but of course not the radhe part; they have their own.
I have all the SB books translated by the RamaKrishna Mission ( a very reliable translation) I couldn’t find a verse from the SB 10.24-26 ???reference you gave, resembling like that idea you wrote earlier. What I found it this: chap10 v. 24
O Vidura! Down came a rain of muck like blood, phlegm, faeces, urine and fat. Headless trunks began to fall before Dhruva.
Newsflash again: I do eat carrot and eggplant ( You checked out the myth first that's why you don't eat carrot, right? Wait, it must be because it's not in Hari Bhakti Vilas. Well, not every single vegetables on the planet are in the book. I heard on facebook that you can now eat eggplant because an authoritative person has given you permission) but I do not offer to my Lord vomit-like products from insect, like honey.
Organized religions have commonality: irrational dogma. I learned that in a m_slim country that when you buy eggplant and tomato, it’s a no, no for the vendor to put them together in the same paperbag. Religionists really have very active imagination.
As you can tell, I have grown tired of dogmas.
If I’m wrong I’m ready to face the Lord’s judgement but in the meantime please just accept the fact that my way of realization is far different from yours. Then maybe, we can all swim along.
Krishna Krishna
Malati dasi: Ananta Govinda, Your assertions are as good as mine.
Delete--------
What does that mean? That thinking of śāstra is outdated is as good as thinking that sastra is eternal?
Mālatī -: I read it from Baba’s bio on your other site. Give me time and I will find it. I must admit that I read it maybe 6 years ago. If you didn’t change anything since then I will find it.
ReplyDeleteAdvaitadās - I mostly add things to it, not delete
Mālatī - Stop painting Baba as a conventional type of guru.
Advaitadās - I repeat my words of yesterday-
“4. Bābā was eccentric but not an offender of śāstra or an intellectual upstart who thinks he stands above śāstra.”
Have you seen my footnotes to Bābā’s bio? Every statement He made is backed up by śāstra.
Mālatī - In his bio also, didn’t Baba say that by clapping two times (I think) and saying Radhe RAdhe loudly your done with your sadhana for the day.
Advaitadās - This IS from śāstra – Rādhā Rasa Sudhānidhi, 143. Not his own concoctions.
Mālatī - He’s not a kind of guru that prescribes numbers.
Advaitadās - He gave 4 rounds to his disciples in his arcanā paddhati, 3 lakhs to me.
Mālatī - I actually much later read on a Buddhist forum that that idea is also a Buddhist idea , but of course not the radhe part; they have their own.
Advaitadās - All śāstras show that Mahāprabhu prescribed 1 lakho nāma, 100,000 names a day.
Mālatī - I have all the SB books translated by the RamaKrishna Mission (a very reliable translation) I couldn’t find a verse from the SB 10.24-26 ??? reference you gave, resembling like that idea you wrote earlier. What I found it this: chap10 v. 24
O Vidura! Down came a rain of muck like blood, phlegm, faeces, urine and fat. Headless trunks began to fall before Dhruva.
Advaitadās - That is from Canto 4.
SB 10.24.26 runs as follows –
pacyantāḿ vividhāḥ pākāḥ
sūpāntāḥ pāyasādayaḥ
saḿyāvāpūpa-śaṣkulyaḥ
sarva-dohaś ca gṛhyatām
SYNONYMS
pacyantām — let the people cook; vividhāḥ — many varieties; pākāḥ — of cooked foods; sūpa-antāḥ — ending with liquid vegetable preparations; pāyasa-ādayaḥ — beginning with sweet rice; saḿyāva-āpūpa — fried and baked cakes; śaṣkulyaḥ — large, round cakes made from rice flour; sarva — all; dohaḥ — what is obtained by milking the cows; ca — and; gṛhyatām — let it be taken.
TRANSLATION
Let many different kinds of food be cooked, from sweet rice to vegetable soups! Many kinds of fancy cakes, both baked and fried, should be prepared. And all the available milk products should be taken for this sacrifice.
Mālatī - Newsflash again: I do eat carrot and eggplant ( You checked out the myth first that's why you don't eat carrot, right?
ReplyDeleteAdvaitadās - Wrong. Kṛṣṇa Di told me in 2003 - āmrā gājor khāi nā. “We don’t eat carrot.” Also never in my life I saw carrots served in the ashram. And we all eat eggplant there. Don’t you remember?
Mālatī - Wait, it must be because it's not in Hari Bhakti Vilas. Well, not every single vegetables on the planet are in the book. I heard on facebook that you can now eat eggplant because an authoritative person has given you permission) but I do not offer to my Lord vomit-like products from insect, like honey.
Advaitadās - I made a blog about eggplants. August 10, 2011. Based on śāstra.
Mālatī - Organized religions have commonality: irrational dogma.
Advaitadās - a. Vaiṣṇavism is not organized religion. Is there anything rational about a 7-year old lifting a mountain for a week?
b. It is based on śabda brahma, spiritual sound.
Mālatī - As you can tell, I have grown tired of dogmas.
Advaitadās - Give me a definition of ‘dogma’ plus evidence from śāstra, please.
mālatī - but I do not offer to my Lord vomit-like products from insect, like honey
Advaitadās - SB 1.18.12 honey is comparing to nectar
1.19.22 same
4.19.8 same
5.16.13 about lakes of milk, honey, sugar cane juice
Plus Balarāmjī got loaded on it in Bhāgavat canto 10, ch.65
Plus Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa get loaded on it in ALL Vaiṣṇava Sāhitya.
Plus -
“Because of these flowing rivers, all the people have ample supplies of milk, yogurt, honey, clarified butter [ghee], molasses, food grains, clothes, bedding, sitting places and ornaments. All the objects they desire are sufficiently supplied for their prosperity, and therefore they are very happy.”
Ref. VedaBase => SB 5.16.24
Mālatī - If I’m wrong I’m ready to face the Lord’s judgement but in the meantime please just accept the fact that my way of realization is far different from yours.
Advaitadās - Perhaps you should understand that you are just a jīva. Perhaps you should check Bhagavad-Gītā 9.3 and 16.23
SB 8.8.11
ReplyDeleteābhiṣecanikā bhūmir āharat sakalauṣadhīḥ
gāvaḥ pañca pavitrāṇi vasanto madhu-mādhavau
Word for word:
ābhiṣecanikāḥ — paraphernalia required for installing the Deity; bhūmiḥ — the land; āharat — collected; sakala — all kinds of; auṣadhīḥ — drugs and herbs; gāvaḥ — the cows; pañca — five different varieties of products from the cow, namely milk, yogurt, clarified butter, cow dung and cow urine; pavitrāṇi — uncontaminated; vasantaḥ — personified springtime; madhu-mādhavau — flowers and fruits produced during spring, or in the months of Caitra and Vaiśākha.
Translation:
The land became a person and collected all the drugs and herbs needed for installing the Deity. The cows delivered five products, namely milk, yogurt, ghee, urine and cow dung, and spring personified collected everything produced in spring, during the months of Caitra and Vaiśākha [April and May].
SB 10.34.3
gāvo hiraṇyaṁ vāsāṁsi madhu madhv-annam ādṛtāḥ
brāhmaṇebhyo daduḥ sarve devo naḥ prīyatām iti
Word for word:
gāvaḥ — cows; hiraṇyam — gold; vāsāṁsi — clothing; madhu — sweet-tasting; madhu — mixed with honey; annam — grains; ādṛtāḥ — respectfully; brāhmaṇebhyaḥ — to the brāhmaṇas; daduḥ — they gave; sarve — all of them; devaḥ — the lord; naḥ — with us; prīyatām — may be pleased; iti — thus praying.
Translation:
The cowherd men gave the brāhmaṇas gifts of cows, gold, clothing and cooked grains mixed with honey. Then the cowherds prayed, “May the lord be pleased with us.”
SB 10.38.37-38
saṅkarṣaṇaś ca praṇatam upaguhya mahā-manāḥ
gṛhītvā pāṇinā pāṇī anayat sānujo gṛham
pṛṣṭvātha sv-āgataṁ tasmai nivedya ca varāsanam
prakṣālya vidhi-vat pādau madhu-parkārhaṇam āharat
Word for word:
saṅkarṣaṇaḥ — Lord Balarāma; ca — and; praṇatam — who was standing with his head bowed; upaguhya — embracing; mahā-manāḥ — magnanimous; gṛhītvā — taking hold of; pāṇinā — with His hand; pāṇī — his two hands; anayat — He took; sa-anujaḥ — with His younger brother (Lord Kṛṣṇa); gṛham — to His residence; pṛṣṭvā — inquiring; atha — then; su-āgatam — about the comfort of his trip; tasmai — to him; nivedya — offering; ca — and; vara — excellent; āsanam — a seat; prakṣālya — washing; vidhi-vat — in accordance with scriptural injunctions; pādau — his feet; madhu-parka — honey mixed with milk; arhaṇam — as a respectful offering; āharat — He brought.
Translation:
As Akrūra stood with his head bowed, Lord Saṅkarṣaṇa [Balarāma] grasped his joined hands, and then Balarāma took him to His house in the company of Lord Kṛṣṇa. After inquiring from Akrūra whether his trip had been comfortable, Balarāma offered him a first-class seat, bathed his feet in accordance with the injunctions of scripture and respectfully served him milk with honey.
Malati, about Bābā's eccentric nature - that was His privilege, but it is not for us ordinary folks to imitate. You can find on p.24 of the bio, footnote 27 -
ReplyDeleteNiranjan Prasād Dās: Bābā forbade us many times to imitate him: “আমি যাহা করি তাহা করিও না - আমি যাহা বলি তাহা করিও” – “Don’t do what I do – do what I say.” He told us to follow the scriptural injunctions. Those who imitate him will be deprived of Mahāviṣṇu’s mercy.”
Stop it, stop it right now you two. This is very unseemly behavior for Vaishnavas. Please apologize to each other and be friends again.
ReplyDeleteSatya mata, what have I done wrong? Ipolitely defended the śāstras only.
ReplyDeleteanyadEvAhurvidyAyA'nyadAhuravidyayA |
iti shushruma dhIrANAm ye nastadvichachakShirE || Īśopanisad 10 ||
We heard from the wise and judicious, who explained to us that the result of having the right knowledge is different from the result of condemning the wrong knowledge. Therefore, both (practice of correct understanding and refutation of false understanding) are needed.
Just seems like you're banging her over the head with shastra, and not so politely. She has her own realizations, that's between her and the Lord. You've explained your point, let her be. Radhe Shyama.
ReplyDeleteSatya mātā, with all respect, as a senior devotee you must know that śāstra is free from four human defects - inattentiveness, mistakes, deceit and imperfect senses. We have provided ample evidence from śāstra that Kṛṣṇa is to be offered all dairy products, jñātvā śāstra vidhānoktaṁ karma kartum ihārhasi [Gītā 16.24] 'Once you know the rules of śāstra you must act accordingly.' That is between us and our Lord, isn't it? It is really that simple. How is there any second way about it? Where is veganism in the śāstra?
ReplyDeleteRadhe Radhe
ReplyDeleteI agree with the point the sastra is more relevant than other theories . Our sastra give us all , without sastra we cannnot understund ouerself like manjaris. I heard that Gurudeva instruct to one devote of west to not take milk to thakurji in west area ... I was thinking a lot about this point.... My conclusion was.
1 . Time health and circunstances .
2. Gurudeva says like this this devote to encourage to stay for ever in Vraja Area.
We live in Kali Yuga Area and we should make endevours in continusly protect the conception of Ahimsa for our bhajan .
Cows glorification must be , but also glorification of any living entity . Vegans are very favorable for this planet , but we are not belong to this planet , and also we want to advance day by day to make our stay longer in the kunjas and fields of Vrindavana Govardhana hill and Radha Kunda mentally serving always to Sri Sri Goura Nitai and Sri Sri Radha and Krishna .
How ? By Smaran .. S M A R A N . ESMARANA , Some Schools of Spirtualism think that is more motivating the beauty of the body , lovely social development , and many sweets things for the EGO , this is not Raganuga Bhakti . Vaisnavas are extraordinary persons . They have everething in their pockets. And they have the key for open the doors of Goloka Vrindavana . i pray for such kripa full of compasion . Gurudeva Kripa . RAdhe Radhe !
Non violence should be made a key point not being against those who love Krishna and wish to not cause suffering. Hridayananda das Goswami is a spiritual leader in ISKON who lives a vegan lifestyle.
ReplyDeleteThere is a difference between having a symbiotic relationship with cows and the modern dairy practices that treat cows not as our mothers but as machines...stealing their babies and making veal of males...forcing them through drugs and equipment to overproduce milk and KILL the cow after milk has dried up.
His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada said that the cow’s natural purpose on earth is to give milk. However, it is not natural for the cow to have her tail cut off without anesthesia, to never see the outdoors, to be tied down and beaten by humans.
A good overview of the subject is at http://www.krishnacore.net/articles_interviews/articles/the_vegan_and_the_vedas.html
SweetD, thank you for your comment. FYI and for all readers here, I did not study the link you provided as I am too busy for that. It is not clear if you are pro or anti vegan. As for the issue of cruelty, that issue has been addressed in the blog. I hope you noticed that.
ReplyDeletethe article in the link is written by a wonderful devotee named Vraja-Kishor das. I ask everyone to take a look.
DeleteI am putting forth that being vegan is not necessarily at odds with Krishna Consciousness. Wanting to not participate in a industry based on greed and violence (that i used examples of} is valid and respectable as is not wanting to offer Krishna food procured through wicked means is valid. Those that are vegan and want to worship Krishna should not be shunned by others in the Krishna community who are not vegan. I have heard of Krishna centers in New Zealand that have gone vegan only to be ridiculed by other devotees...this is not productive.
Vegans are called dumb ny some devotees, also, demons. Not basic maners are being shown by ISKCON devotees. What about the instructions of Lord Chaitanya? "We should be ready to offer our respects to others" feeling ourselves lower than a blade of grass".
DeleteSwwetD - ISKCON's founder was not vegan, and cruelty to animals was going on in his time too. Was he wrong then, and the vegans know it better than their own founder-acarya? One of the 10 offences to the holy name is disobeying Guru.....
ReplyDeleteraj, before you comment on my blog, first study it and study the board rules. then u would know
ReplyDelete1. far from being an iskcon member i have been a vocal opponent of them for 32 years
2. comments that contain obscene and offensive language are blocked
3. i showed sufficient empathy with the abused cows
4. as to your second comment - u are totally ignorant of krishna leela if u deny that krishna is fond of dairy products.
study shastra first, then comment