Bhakta: “A prominent bhakta is saying that there is really a line of Gaura Nāgarī bhāva, coming from Mahāprabhu's associate, (forgot his name ..) that has practised and is still practicing it.”
Advaitadas: “These associates are Locandās and Narahari Sarakāra. The point is, Murāri Gupta worshipped Rām and Nṛsiṁhānanda Brahmacārī worshipped Nṛsiṁha and these are also associates of Mahāprabhu. But these are exceptions. We are to follow the authorized ācāryas ourselves - the 6 Gosvāmīs, and they have not prescribed any of all of this. The ācāryas, both then and now, are giving mañjarī bhāva.”
Bhakta: “In the abhiṣek in India everybody can take part?”
Advaitadas: “No, I have never seen this anywhere in India. It is done by the pūjārīs. You see, in Iskcon everyone can take part - menstruating women, people who passed stool in cotton clothes, who wore the same clothes for a week or more, or people who did not shower at all. If I ever have a public abhiṣek I would never allow anyone to shower Giridhārī. In Sādhu Bābā’s āshram its also done just by the pūjārīs.”
Bhakta: “Yes, after seeing your arguments I agree, though at that time I saw it as a mercy.”
Advaitadas: “Mercy comes in the form of harinām; everyone can take part in kīrtan. Not in arcanā. What is the use of vetting pūjārīs on sadācāra and 'brahminical qualifications' then if you allow all dirty bums to shower Kṛṣṇa with (contaminated by) stool and menstrual blood on His own birthday even?”
Bhakta: “You say the mañjarīs have no intimate relationship with Kṛṣṇa but we do find statements in Kṛṣṇa Bhāvanāmṛta, Govinda Līlāmṛta and Muktā Carita that hint at it or even openly describe it.”
Advaitadas: “rasika līlā-matters are subjective, tattva is objective. In other words, if your Guru teaches that the mañjarī is not married and is an all-round brahmacārinī, also not enjoying with Kṛṣṇa, then that is your svarūpa. If other ācāryas say you are married and/or enjoy with Kṛṣṇa, then that is your svarūpa. But tattva is objective. Its not that one Guru’s teaching that the living entities fall down from the spiritual world is true and another Guru’s teaching that we were always here is also true.”
Bhakta: “Nāndīmukhī is called brahmacārinī in the Muktā Caritra (428), but she asks Kṛṣṇa about amorous details. How is that?”
Advaitadas: “That’s nothing. mañjarīs are eternal brahmacārinīs and they have the most intimate access to Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa’s pastimes. Speaking of brahmacārinīs, for long I wondered whether this term was actually Vedic. I only accepted it as such when I first read this verse. I was under the impression that it is not Vedic for a girl to remain single and that they should all be married in time for their own protection, but when I took dīkṣā from my Guru I found that he encouraged his female disciples also to remain single and take jobs as teachers, nurses etc.”
Bhakta: “In the Bhāgavata (10.45.60) Rukmiṇī seems to preach to women not to accept a man whose body is filled with puss, stool, urine and covered with hair everywhere as a husband but simply to worship Kṛṣṇa. That is preaching to girls to remain brahmacārinīs.”
Advaitadas: ‘bālasya neha śaraṇaṁ pitarau nṛsiṁha (SB 7.9.19) – The parents cannot protect their child, tvad upekṣitānām – if it is neglected by You.” Similarly a woman cannot really be protected by her husband, if God decides otherwise.
Bhakta: “Previously (blog of June 2, 2008) you objected against compulsory Nṛsiṁha worship because Nṛsimha is such an aiśvarya deity, but Nanda Mahārāja loved the Nārāyan-deity too.”
Advaitadas: “Nanda Mahārāj only loves Kṛṣṇa. People in Vraja are formally worshipping Sūryadeva (Rādhā’s family) Durgā (Candrāvalī’s family) or Nārāyan (Kṛṣṇa’s family) but that is only a backdrop for the greatest love for Kṛṣṇa that the Vrajavāsīs posses. Who of them cares for Nārāyan?”
Bhakta: “If they don’t care for Nārāyan why they worship Him at all?”
Advaitadas: “Kṛṣṇa wont want to live in a paradise full of atheists. And He can also not live in a paradise where He Himself is God – so the solution is that devatās are worshipped in His environment. Everybody in Vraja has their kuladeva, their traditional family-deity.”
Bhakta: “So they worship Nārāyan to go to the abode of Nārāyan in the next life. They think like that?”
Advaitadas: “Most Indian families are not really hankering for this to be their last birth in the material world. They are mostly interested in their relatives and their family deity is another thing. Nanda Mahārāja is like that too, in the līlā of course. Once Nārada Muni approached Nanda Mahārāja and told him: “Why don’t you renounce household life – it is all māyā.” Nanda Mahārāja replied: “Oh sādhu, I am totally happy in this household life – I have Kṛṣṇa as my son. What more would I want?” This is called dhṛti, contentness.”
Advaitadas: “These associates are Locandās and Narahari Sarakāra. The point is, Murāri Gupta worshipped Rām and Nṛsiṁhānanda Brahmacārī worshipped Nṛsiṁha and these are also associates of Mahāprabhu. But these are exceptions. We are to follow the authorized ācāryas ourselves - the 6 Gosvāmīs, and they have not prescribed any of all of this. The ācāryas, both then and now, are giving mañjarī bhāva.”
Bhakta: “In the abhiṣek in India everybody can take part?”
Advaitadas: “No, I have never seen this anywhere in India. It is done by the pūjārīs. You see, in Iskcon everyone can take part - menstruating women, people who passed stool in cotton clothes, who wore the same clothes for a week or more, or people who did not shower at all. If I ever have a public abhiṣek I would never allow anyone to shower Giridhārī. In Sādhu Bābā’s āshram its also done just by the pūjārīs.”
Bhakta: “Yes, after seeing your arguments I agree, though at that time I saw it as a mercy.”
Advaitadas: “Mercy comes in the form of harinām; everyone can take part in kīrtan. Not in arcanā. What is the use of vetting pūjārīs on sadācāra and 'brahminical qualifications' then if you allow all dirty bums to shower Kṛṣṇa with (contaminated by) stool and menstrual blood on His own birthday even?”
Bhakta: “You say the mañjarīs have no intimate relationship with Kṛṣṇa but we do find statements in Kṛṣṇa Bhāvanāmṛta, Govinda Līlāmṛta and Muktā Carita that hint at it or even openly describe it.”
Advaitadas: “rasika līlā-matters are subjective, tattva is objective. In other words, if your Guru teaches that the mañjarī is not married and is an all-round brahmacārinī, also not enjoying with Kṛṣṇa, then that is your svarūpa. If other ācāryas say you are married and/or enjoy with Kṛṣṇa, then that is your svarūpa. But tattva is objective. Its not that one Guru’s teaching that the living entities fall down from the spiritual world is true and another Guru’s teaching that we were always here is also true.”
Bhakta: “Nāndīmukhī is called brahmacārinī in the Muktā Caritra (428), but she asks Kṛṣṇa about amorous details. How is that?”
Advaitadas: “That’s nothing. mañjarīs are eternal brahmacārinīs and they have the most intimate access to Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa’s pastimes. Speaking of brahmacārinīs, for long I wondered whether this term was actually Vedic. I only accepted it as such when I first read this verse. I was under the impression that it is not Vedic for a girl to remain single and that they should all be married in time for their own protection, but when I took dīkṣā from my Guru I found that he encouraged his female disciples also to remain single and take jobs as teachers, nurses etc.”
Bhakta: “In the Bhāgavata (10.45.60) Rukmiṇī seems to preach to women not to accept a man whose body is filled with puss, stool, urine and covered with hair everywhere as a husband but simply to worship Kṛṣṇa. That is preaching to girls to remain brahmacārinīs.”
Advaitadas: ‘bālasya neha śaraṇaṁ pitarau nṛsiṁha (SB 7.9.19) – The parents cannot protect their child, tvad upekṣitānām – if it is neglected by You.” Similarly a woman cannot really be protected by her husband, if God decides otherwise.
Bhakta: “Previously (blog of June 2, 2008) you objected against compulsory Nṛsiṁha worship because Nṛsimha is such an aiśvarya deity, but Nanda Mahārāja loved the Nārāyan-deity too.”
Advaitadas: “Nanda Mahārāj only loves Kṛṣṇa. People in Vraja are formally worshipping Sūryadeva (Rādhā’s family) Durgā (Candrāvalī’s family) or Nārāyan (Kṛṣṇa’s family) but that is only a backdrop for the greatest love for Kṛṣṇa that the Vrajavāsīs posses. Who of them cares for Nārāyan?”
Bhakta: “If they don’t care for Nārāyan why they worship Him at all?”
Advaitadas: “Kṛṣṇa wont want to live in a paradise full of atheists. And He can also not live in a paradise where He Himself is God – so the solution is that devatās are worshipped in His environment. Everybody in Vraja has their kuladeva, their traditional family-deity.”
Bhakta: “So they worship Nārāyan to go to the abode of Nārāyan in the next life. They think like that?”
Advaitadas: “Most Indian families are not really hankering for this to be their last birth in the material world. They are mostly interested in their relatives and their family deity is another thing. Nanda Mahārāja is like that too, in the līlā of course. Once Nārada Muni approached Nanda Mahārāja and told him: “Why don’t you renounce household life – it is all māyā.” Nanda Mahārāja replied: “Oh sādhu, I am totally happy in this household life – I have Kṛṣṇa as my son. What more would I want?” This is called dhṛti, contentness.”
*
This will be the last blog from Holland for now, I am flying to Delhi tomorrow, though I am suffering from complications of ear infections. Everyone keep their fingers crossed – I will take painkillers for the take-off and landing (ear-pressure).